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  1. #11
    Ian Grant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ole
    Ilford MG IV is famous for being very resistant to tone change, but the WT version is very responsive!
    Ole your so wrong :-)

    It's only resistant to direct toners like Selenium elc. As soon as you use an indirect toner ie Rehalogenating bleach followed by the toner you have a wealth of tones available.

    Ian

  2. #12
    Ian Grant's Avatar
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    Carbon toner is Moersch's name what colour shift are you after ?

  3. #13
    ann
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    Jim,
    I don't believe the formula for that toner is published.

    At one time i had the link to their website that had wonderful examples of what could be done with Moersch chemicals and papers.

  4. #14
    Ole
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Grant
    Ole your so wrong :-)

    It's only resistant to direct toners like Selenium elc. As soon as you use an indirect toner ie Rehalogenating bleach followed by the toner you have a wealth of tones available.

    Ian

    Ehm - everything responds to rehalogeniting bleach and toning. MG IV is famous for resisting just about every attempt to change the tone - without bleaching first. It's one of very few papers I have found not to change the tone at all in strong KRST, which is in some cases very useful.
    -- Ole Tjugen, Luddite Elitist
    Norway

  5. #15
    skahde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ann
    Jim,
    I don't believe the formula for that toner is published.

    At one time i had the link to their website that had wonderful examples of what could be done with Moersch chemicals and papers.
    The formula isn't published but what Wolfgang disclosed strongly points to a toner close to Agfa 516 (Na-Sulfide + Selenium). Nothing you want to make at home. If J&C don't list carbon toner they should be able to get it if you ask as fotoimpex lists it. The effect is not comparable to polysulfide toners or polysulfide/selenium toners like viradon new/old.

    OTOH what holds you back from ordering internationally? In recent times I hardly notice a difference if I order something locally, from france, uk, australia or the US (well, australia takes a tad longer). Carbon toner is sold in quantities of 100ml per bottle last time I ordered it.

    Examples for results are here: http://www.moersch-photochemie.de/bi...galerie=carbon

    If you wan't to order from Wolfgang Moersch directly: http://www.moersch-photochemie.de/index_e.php

    Best

    Stefan

  6. #16
    George Papantoniou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ole
    Ehm - everything responds to rehalogeniting bleach and toning. MG IV is famous for resisting just about every attempt to change the tone - without bleaching first. It's one of very few papers I have found not to change the tone at all in strong KRST, which is in some cases very useful.
    I'll second Ole's opinion on this, adding that even rehalogenating toners have difficulties with MG IV's incorporated restrainers. I understand the reasons why Ilford uses them (image consistency under different development conditions, such as chemical strength, temperature etc) but they definitely cause problems with toning. This is partly why Ilford created the WT paper, and promoted it using this argument (that it tones easily) when they introduced it.

    This doesn't mean that MG IV is a bad product, only that it is meant to be used for other things and not tone change by immersing in chemical substances. It's a great paper, Ian. Don't you worry about it.

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