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  1. #11

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    Sorry on my part too. I should have realized that there might be a time disconnect in posting.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donald Qualls
    The stabilizer process isn't intended to provide an archival image, but rather a very rapid dry-to-dry access time for things like test prints.

    ... Deletions ...

    Rowland Mowrey was working on a super-fixer ... Deletions... This super-fixer, however, would have to be applied after the print comes out of the stabilizer -- or else the (alkaline) fixer would need to replace the stabilizer in the processor you have.
    Donald:

    I have the stabilization processor, but not the 'proper' stabilization chemicals/paper. Years ago I had a Spiratone stabilization processor that I actually used with activator and stabilizer, and the proper paper, etc. but I got this machine a while back with the idea of trying to slow it down enough to use as a roller processor, but when I saw how fast it was I shelved the project. (I didn't recall from years ago just how fast these machines run) But after seeing how fast a sodium hydroxide solution will develop a paper with developer incorporated into it, it got me wondering about using the machine.

    I guess I should ask, what is a good test to see if a print is fixed enough? I of course could just use a strong fix in the machine as the 'stabilizer', and then refix in a tray when they come out, but it would be cool if I could have the machine do all the fixing too, so all that I would have to do would be to wash the print, and dry it.

    And of course I'm playing with this idea right after the one company who's paper I know is developer incorporated has announced that they're discontinuing their paper!

    -Mike

  3. #13

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    Most RC papers have incorporated developing agents because they are intented for machine processing. By incorporating the developing agents the developer in these processors will not exhaust as rapidly.

    Stabilization processors do not afford much time in either bath therefore using a conventional fixer in them will not work. However, you can still use them with an ammonium thiocyanate bath. You could then save up several batches of prints and fix and wash them all at one time at your convenience.

    The Dignan Newsletter may have published some formulas for the two baths.

  4. #14
    David A. Goldfarb's Avatar
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    Haist mentions a few very rapid fixers. Here's one designed to fix microfilm in 10 sec. at 80 deg. F. He notes that since there is no hardener in this one, wash times are also reduced--

    Sodium thiosulfate (crystal)--280 g
    Ammonium thiocyanate--140 g
    Potassium sulfite--80 g
    Water to make 1 liter
    flickr--http://www.flickr.com/photos/davidagoldfarb/
    Photography (not as up to date as the flickr site)--http://www.davidagoldfarb.com/photo
    Academic (Slavic and Comparative Literature)--http://www.davidagoldfarb.com

  5. #15
    Charles Webb's Avatar
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    I used a Kodak stabilzation processor for many years, I used kodak papers and Agfa/Gevaert both could be made perminent with Kodak Rapid fix. We used the prints for halftones and other printing. I have literally hundreds of stabilized prints not run through the Rapid fix that have not faded in twenty years or so. I also have a number of prints that did go through the fix bath and apear just as bright and snappy as the day they were made.( 20 years or so.)

    It is a myth that stabilization prints cannot be made perminent perhaps not archivally, but twenty or more years print life for a quickie process aint shabby.

  6. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Donald Qualls
    For that matter, you could pretty easily monosoup those
    papers in a strongly alkaline fixer; possibly a rapid fixer alkalized
    with sodium carbonate or sodium phosphate would give the
    rapid action you want without releasing too much
    ammonia into the air.
    One-tray, one-shot, one-solution processing. Not that the
    thought has not crossed my mind but you've renewed my
    curiosity. I'd be more inclined to use the sodium form.
    I'd expect some lose of paper speed. Dan

  7. #17
    Ian Grant's Avatar
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    Back around 1978 I did quite a bit of research into using Monobath's for B&W paper processing, and came up with a very practical and effective formulation.

    The company contemplated selling the Monobath commercially but in fact it was part of a longer term project and we took it no further.

    Ian

    Quote Originally Posted by dancqu
    One-tray, one-shot, one-solution processing. Not that the
    thought has not crossed my mind but you've renewed my
    curiosity. I'd be more inclined to use the sodium form.
    I'd expect some lose of paper speed. Dan

  8. #18
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    Bear in mind that the stabilization process was based on the use of FB paper. The rapid processing of RC paper is possible of course, but the stabilizer must be absorbed into the base in order to be effective for any usable length of time. This means that a true fixer should be used with RC paper.

    It is also possible to make a developer concentrated enough to develop a paper that has no developer incorporated in the first part of the machine. Another possibility is to use the machine only for development by using a divided developer with a strong activator in the second tank. The output could simply go into a tray of fixer, or if you can find another roller processor you could arrange to have the paper fed directly into the second one for fixing.
    Gadget Gainer

  9. #19
    lee
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    we use to place the processor on a stand and place the fixer tray underneath and just let the paper drop into the fix they wash and dry as usual . this was a long time ago when RC did not exist. Have not seen paper in eons.

    lee\c

  10. #20
    Donald Qualls's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dancqu
    One-tray, one-shot, one-solution processing. Not that the
    thought has not crossed my mind but you've renewed my
    curiosity. I'd be more inclined to use the sodium form.
    I'd expect some lose of paper speed. Dan
    The sodium form of fixer wouldn't smell, but with images appearing in a few seconds with the strong alkali, there's no reason you'd expect to see speed loss even with the ammonium fixer; the image will be developed to completion before appreciable fixing takes place. I'd try something along the lines of 2% sodium hydroxide solution plus around 80 g/L sodium thiosulfate and leave the paper in for the normal fixing time -- or use the 2% sodium hydroxide to dilute rapid fixer concentrate, but I think that would wind up with too much ammonia evolving for use in most darkrooms. Either one should be reusable up to the fixer capacity, since there's nothing to neutralize the alkali and you get fresh developer with each sheet. I wouldn't keep them from session to session, though, due to developer contamination of the bath.

    Oh, yeah, and leaving the paper alkaline will speed washing, too...
    Photography has always fascinated me -- as a child, simply for the magic of capturing an image onto glossy paper with a little box, but as an adult because of the unique juxtaposition of science and art -- the physics of optics, the mechanics of the camera, the chemistry of film and developer, alongside the art in seeing, composing, exposing, processing and printing.

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