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  1. #1

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    Calling all Pyrocat HD experts. Help!

    Hi all! I've finally bit the bullet and ordered my Pyrocat HD From PF in Liquid Form. It should be here tomorrow. I also ordered a box of efke pl100/ ilford fp4/ and I already have tmx 400. All 4x5 sheets.


    My request if youd be so kind to help me here...

    I need (start) Times Temps Dillutions Agitation frequency for N, N+1, N+2, N-1, N-2 for fp4 efke100 and tmax 400.

    I'll be processing in a slosher or can also process in a jobo cpp2. I'd prefer the intermitent agitation though for the accutance factor... hence the slosher.

    With great appreciation, I thank you and look forward any and all thoughts.

    Bob

  2. #2

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    I know you didn't ask, but my time (and what Sandy King had me use) for Bergger 200 sheet film (using a slosher) was 1:1:100 for 40 mins. 68 degrees. Agitate vigorously for the first 1 1/2 min, then every 10 minutes. I haven't worked out any N+- yet. I just got m UV densitometer, but I'm putting in a new sink and water controller in the darkroom.

  3. #3
    Steve Sherman's Avatar
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    Pyrocat HD is my choice of developer as well. However, there are so many varialbes with B&W films and processes so much depends on your likes and dislikes.

    Just my 2 cents...

    Decide, start, learn, explore, adjust and finish with one film, one film developer and one
    final process before moving onto another variable. Everyone has different methods with
    different products which is OK so long as they remain consistent. Like I said, just my 2
    cents.
    Real Photographs are Born Wet !
    http://www.steve-sherman.com

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by bobbysandstrom
    Hi all! I've finally bit the bullet and ordered my Pyrocat HD From PF in Liquid Form. It should be here tomorrow. I also ordered a box of efke pl100/ ilford fp4/ and I already have tmx 400. All 4x5 sheets.


    My request if youd be so kind to help me here...

    I need (start) Times Temps Dillutions Agitation frequency for N, N+1, N+2, N-1, N-2 for fp4 efke100 and tmax 400.

    I'll be processing in a slosher or can also process in a jobo cpp2. I'd prefer the intermitent agitation though for the accutance factor... hence the slosher.

    With great appreciation, I thank you and look forward any and all thoughts.

    Bob
    Bob,

    I think frustratingly you are going to have to experiment for yourself. I have found little correlation btwn what other people do and what I find works for me. With a staining dev like this the stain will depend upon water factors as well as fixers etc and will have a bearing along with the papers you intend to print on. I use pyrocat a fair bit and when everyone else was reporting good results and reasonable times with 1:1:100, I found out that I needed at least 1.5:1.5:100 for reasonable times for VC silver printing for me. Your dev regime will depend entirely upon whether you are going for alt process, Graded silver or VC silver. Even VC papers....there is a good grade between Oriental VC and Ilford MG and that will affect your times. I have pretty well stopped asking for times myself as I dont find them useful any more. I start with a guess or published time and go from there, knowing that with my very soft enlarger heads I tend to need more dev time.

    I started out on Efke but got a dodgy batch (under Maco label up100) and never tried again. As for FP4 sheet for silver: Try 1.5:1.5:100 at 20 degs c ag for 60s then every minute for 12 mins rated at ei 64. I find pyrocat gives about half box speed most of the time, sometimes a touch more, but I guess with the longer times for alt processes, speed is a fair bit higher. I use the phenidone version (dont know what the photog forulary one is) HP5 is about 15 mins.

  5. #5
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    Tom has given you the best advice here. It is sort of like asking someone if they can "borrow" your wife and then return her after they are finished. My suggestion would be to get the BTZS book by Phil Davis and have at it. The zone system's N, N+ and N- numbers will not tell the whole story about exposure and development. Because of the paper's scale and the film's speed, numbers can change with respect to development times.

    Best place to start is to look at existing film curves and then the numbers which someone like Sandy King has been so kind as to publish. With a little bit of tinkering, you will be able to figure it out on your own. Plan on about 6 months to have a system which works well, a few sheets of paper and some film. tim

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by noseoil
    Tom has given you the best advice here. It is sort of like asking someone if they can "borrow" your wife and then return her after they are finished. My suggestion would be to get the BTZS book by Phil Davis and have at it. The zone system's N, N+ and N- numbers will not tell the whole story about exposure and development. Because of the paper's scale and the film's speed, numbers can change with respect to development times.

    Best place to start is to look at existing film curves and then the numbers which someone like Sandy King has been so kind as to publish. With a little bit of tinkering, you will be able to figure it out on your own. Plan on about 6 months to have a system which works well, a few sheets of paper and some film. tim
    The BTZS type data that I provide is derived from a specified type of agitation, always rotary in BTZS type tubes unless other wise specified. I sometimes give results in CI, or Average Gradient, at other times as SBR values based on a desired negative DR. If you follow the same development procedures that I use your results should not be very different from mine in terms of CI or SBR. In that sense the data derived from BTZS testing is highly portable.

    However, people on this forum are using a wide range of processes and most of them have very specific requirements in terms of what kind of negative is required. My own specific data would be useful to someone else in terms of process application only to the extent that they understand what kind of CI or SBR at a given negative DR is required, and of course how to measure it.

    As a general rule I would venture the opinion that if you develop your film with rotary processing and print with graded silver papers (including AZO) or one of the UV sensitive alternative processes you will find my film development recommendations to be a very good guide that in most cases will need adjustment by no more than about 1/2 grade in contrast to be spot on.

    That would not be true, however, if you are using VC papers because the spectral density requirements of stained negatives varies a lot according to the color of the stain and the actual sensitivity of the paper. More exotic types of development, such as minimal, semi-stand and stand also will require experimentation because small changes in dilution or frequency and type of agitation can have a big impact on the final result.

    Sandy

  7. #7

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    Is there a ballpark start time for normal development... tray processing (constant first minute 10 sec every following minute) and enlarging w/ VC Fiber paper?

    Thanks all for your help.

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by bobbysandstrom
    Is there a ballpark start time for normal development... tray processing (constant first minute 10 sec every following minute) and enlarging w/ VC Fiber paper?

    Thanks all for your help.
    For the specifics above and N development, and with developer at 72º F, try the 1:1:100 dilution for 14 minutes with FP4+ and TMAX-400, 17 minutes with Efke. Or use the 2:2:100 dilution and 9 minutes with FP4+ and TMAX-400, 10 minutes for Efke 100.

    Sandy

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by sanking
    For the specifics above and N development, and with developer at 72º F, try the 1:1:100 dilution for 14 minutes with FP4+ and TMAX-400, 17 minutes with Efke. Or use the 2:2:100 dilution and 9 minutes with FP4+ and TMAX-400, 10 minutes for Efke 100.

    Sandy
    Sandy's times above end up pretty close to mine in fact (once temp and dilution adjusted for)...after all that!

    The great thing about pyrocat is that it is hard to grossly overdevelop as the highlights are much more printable and just dont block up.

    BTW I printed some more TriX in pyrocat and I am definitely in love....smitten...


    Good luck!

  10. #10

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    Waitin in anticipation

    Thanks guys for your help. My chems should be arriving at my dore today, Hopefully! I'm really looking forward to working with pyrocat! And special thanks Sandy for your generousity with regards to sharing your knowledge. I think I speak for a lot of us here on apug.

    Sincerely
    Bob

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