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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by sanking
    How would making a paste and then adding the TEA differ from just adding a small amount of very hot water, dissolving the metol and then adding this to TEA? I have done this and the solution appeared to dissolve into the TEA with no problem, but later when the TEA cooled I could see that much of the metol had come out of solution.

    Sandy
    Are you sure that what settled out after cooling was metol and not the sulfate salt of TEA? For every 10 grams of metol you put in, about 3 grams of sulfate ion are released from the metol. The sulfate of TEA has quite a large molecular weight, and if it is not soluble in TEA it may look like a lot of metol settled out. Then too, the hot water may have oxidized some of the metol. You might try 10 grams of metol and a teaspoon or two of COOL water. Make it into a paste and add a little TEA. Work this around some and add enough TEA at room temperature to make 100 ml. In other words, keep the temperature down until the metol is well covered by the TEA. Stir it well and warm it to maybe 140 F. Let it sit for hours or until it cools and test the liquid for activity by mixing 5 ml of it in 250 ml of water with a teaspoon (about 8 grams) of sulfite. In my experiments, this solution is about as active as full strength D-23, an 8 minute developer for, say, HP5+.

    The solution should be a light honey color. I made some last night and some a few days ago and both are still that color.
    Gadget Gainer

  2. #42
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    There is a slightly different way to go about this. I calculate, based on typical 149.19 molecular weight of TEA supplied by Dow, that it would take 0.87 grams of TEA to release the base of a gram of metol and 1.57 grams to do that for amidol. That translates to 0.77 ml and 1.4 ml at room temperature. One could make the paste with, say, 7 ml TEA and 10 g metol and then add cool water. In theory, it would take only a little more than 1 ml to satisfy the equation for 10 grams metol or 1.9 ml for 10 grams amidol. Now the sludge or solution as the case may be should be about neutral. The rest of the 100 ml to make 10% could be TEA or glycol or an alcohol.
    I cannot seem to find a way to make amidol solutions that don't look like the stuff that comes out of a lot of wells here in West Virginia. Of course, that stuff burns. No matter how black my amidol solution, it is a very potent developing agent. 1:100 dilution in 3% sulfite will develop HP5+ to normal contrast for diffusion enlargement, with a lot of density. Metol takes more.
    Gadget Gainer

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by gainer
    There is a slightly different way to go about this. I calculate, based on typical 149.19 molecular weight of TEA supplied by Dow, that it would take 0.87 grams of TEA to release the base of a gram of metol and 1.57 grams to do that for amidol. That translates to 0.77 ml and 1.4 ml at room temperature. One could make the paste with, say, 7 ml TEA and 10 g metol and then add cool water. ...
    I meant that to say 8 ml. which is 7.7 in government terms. A heaping (this is possible with TEA) 1/2 tbs will do it. Half a tablespoon comes in most measuring spoon sets and is 7.5 ml.

    It's like when I was a kid making mud pies and the like. When you add the tiny bit of water, 1/4 teaspoon, things change, but slowly. The paste gets semi-fluid so it won't hold a dimple...very long.
    Gadget Gainer

  4. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by gainer
    You might try 10 grams of metol and a teaspoon or two of COOL water. Make it into a paste and add a little TEA. Work this around some and add enough TEA at room temperature to make 100 ml. In other words, keep the temperature down until the metol is well covered by the TEA. Stir it well and warm it to maybe 140 F. Let it sit for hours or until it cools and test the liquid for activity by mixing 5 ml of it in 250 ml of water with a teaspoon (about 8 grams) of sulfite. In my experiments, this solution is about as active as full strength D-23, an 8 minute developer for, say, HP5+.

    The solution should be a light honey color. I made some last night and some a few days ago and both are still that color.
    OK, I mixed the metol with a little water, made a paste, and then added the TEA at room temperature. I did not heat it, but frankly everything appears to be in solution at this time. I will test it tomorrow. I think you are right in that the hot water caused oxidation.

    Sandy

  5. #45
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    Now there is joy on Croagh Padraic!
    Gadget Gainer

  6. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by gainer
    Now there is joy on Croagh Padraic!
    Did you mean Croagh Padraig?

    If so, how can anyone be happy in a place where the major gratification is flagellation?

    Meanwhile, back in Easley, South Carolina, we found that the metol mixed in TEA according to your instructions worked nicely.

    Sandy

  7. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by gainer
    Now there is joy on Croagh Padraic!
    Not a Snake or Frog anywhere in sight - maybe just a few faint echos from your bell, eh? St. Patrick?
    Tom Hoskinson
    ______________________________

    Everything is analog - even digital :D

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by sanking
    Did you mean Croagh Padraig?

    If so, how can anyone be happy in a place where the major gratification is flagellation?

    Meanwhile, back in Easley, South Carolina, we found that the metol mixed in TEA according to your instructions worked nicely.

    Sandy
    When you get to the pearly gates you can ask my father, Patrick Ward Gainer, why he named it thus. I'm not sure of the spelling, but he told me it meant "Patrick's Mountain". His doctorate was in philosophy and philology of English, from St. Louis University. His ancestors came from Ireland, where the name is now spelled Gainor, but when they came over in 1745, a county clerk or some recorder spelled it our way. The same sort of thing caused the Monongahela river to run through Monongalia county. He married Antoinette Kizinski who came from Poland when she was 5, and he learned Polish, so he said, in self defence. She spoke Polish and English both without accent.

    I'm happy it worked for you.

    An Irish lady friend told us once that St. Patrick got rid of all the pests in Ireland except the beer drinking Irishmen.
    Gadget Gainer

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