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  1. #1

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    Rodinal vs PyrocatHD

    OK

    Whis is sharper?

    1) A pyrocatHD neg processed in a Jobo (constant agitation)

    or

    2) A Dilute Rodinal neg processed with only 10sec per minute agitation.



    :-)

  2. #2
    fhovie's Avatar
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    why would you compare one developer with constant agitation with another developer with hand agitation? I am trying to understand what you are trying to learn?
    My photos are always without all that distracting color ...

  3. #3
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    Frank,
    I think he is asking do Apples make sharper negatives than Oranges?

    I guess the correct answer would be -- You tell me.

  4. #4
    noseoil's Avatar
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    "I think he is asking do Apples make sharper negatives than Oranges?"

    Simple one to answer, bananas. Of course. tim

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by bobbysandstrom
    OK

    Whis is sharper?

    1) A pyrocatHD neg processed in a Jobo (constant agitation)

    or

    2) A Dilute Rodinal neg processed with only 10sec per minute agitation.



    :-)
    Hi Bobby,

    I honestly don't know the answr to your question, and doubt that anyone else does.

    If the answer to the question is important you can test it yourself. All you need to do is, 1) find time and temperature for a given dilution of Rodinal that will give the same average contrast as Pyrocat-HD, 2) make two exposures on the same film of a pictorial subject that has a lot of detail (distant skyline for example), 3) develop one of the negatives in Rodinal, the other in Pyrocat-HD, based on the conditions of your question, 4) make 20X24" prints (or sections equal to 20X24"), and 5) evalute the results very carefully. I would suggest 6X6 format for this test.

    Look carefully at grain and sharpness and make your own determination.

    This is my ultimate test of films and developers.

    Of course, as others have pointed out, this would still be an apples to oranges comparison because of the different methods of agitation.

    Sandy
    Last edited by sanking; 09-07-2005 at 10:53 PM. Click to view previous post history.

  6. #6

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    Gee Whiz Mr. King if photographers start doing careful objective tests one may come to the conclusion that there is heresy coming from the head office in Demark of the Church of Rodinal.

    Certainly, this matter has been dealt with Ex-Cathedra and if need be could be dealt with Ex-Communicationa.

    Does blind faith count for nothing?
    Claire (Ms Anne Thrope is in the darkroom)

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Claire Senft
    Gee Whiz Mr. King if photographers start doing careful objective tests one may come to the conclusion that there is heresy coming from the head office in Demark of the Church of Rodinal.

    Certainly, this matter has been dealt with Ex-Cathedra and if need be could be dealt with Ex-Communicationa.

    Does blind faith count for nothing?
    Claire,

    Oh my goodness!! I was burned at the stake by the Holy Inquisition in two previous lives for heresy. Since then I left Europe and moved to America and am trying to get through this reincarnation with no serious burn abrasions.

    Sandy

  8. #8
    Daniel Lawton's Avatar
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    Using Rodinal at 1+100 with reduced agitation was my most used combo until I discovered Pyrocat-HD. I find the images are at least as sharp if not more so and grain seems much less apparent due to the image stain. Pyrocat also gives a much larger compensating effect which leads to very printable negatives in all but the most contrasty scenes. All-in-all Pyrocat-HD has become my standard developer and I rarely find myself using anything else these days. I've yet to find another developer that excels in so many aspects of negative quality.

  9. #9

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    Sorry guys, I should have been more clear when I posed my question. I've recently done BTZS tests using rodinal 1:50 at 72F with agitation first 15sec then 10sec each additional minute. Got all my data (was surprised at the amount of speed loss with txp320 by the way) and having done a few test shots, all seems right-on! I have pyrocatHD sitting right here. (ordered from PF). Not being able to make an educated decision based on my own definitive knowledge with regards to toxicity, I hesitate to use the pyro. I would only consider it if I use it in my JOBO. Even then, the thought of residule chemistry left about after emptying the JOBO and whatever splashes I don't notice etc, etc, concerns me. Now, if I knew with absolute certainty that all the scary things I read were unfounded, I'd be in there getting my numbers on the stuff right now. So, I'm not ruling out the pyro. But, if I had enough people telling me that I can get the same degree of sharpness from the rodinal the way I'm currently using it vs Pyro in a JOBO, I'd be done with it. (hence the apples oranges comparison) However if nobody has had an opportunity to see, together, prints made in the ways described, I guess I'm on my own.

    Thanks, and sorry for the confusion.

    Bob

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by bobbysandstrom
    Sorry guys, I should have been more clear when I posed my question. I've recently done BTZS tests using rodinal 1:50 at 72F with agitation first 15sec then 10sec each additional minute. Got all my data (was surprised at the loss of speed with txp320 by the way) and having done a few test shots, all seems right-on! I have pyrocatHD sitting right here. (ordered from PF). Not being able to make an educated decision based on my own definitive knowledge with regards to toxicity, I hesitate to use the pyro. I would only consider it if I use it in my JOBO. Even then, the thought of residule chemistry left about after emptying the JOBO and whatever splashes I don't notice etc, etc, concerns me. Now, if I knew with absolute certainty that all the scary things I read were unfounded, I'd be in there getting my numbers on the stuff right now. So, I'm not ruling out the pyro. But, if I had enough people telling me that I can get the same degree of sharpness from the rodinal the way I'm currently using it vs Pyro in a JOBO, I'd be done with it. (hence the apples oranges comparison) However if nobody has had an opportunity to see, together, prints made in the ways described, I guess I'm on my own.

    Thanks, and sorry for the confusion.

    Bob
    Jeeez, it is not like we are dealing with vastly different entities. Bobby, all reducers, with the possible exception of Vitamin C, are toxic. Rodinal is toxic, D76 is toxic, HC-110 is toxic, all of them. If you drink enough of any of them you will die. OK, so don't drink your developer. And use nitrile gloves when you develop your film. All this exchange about the dangers or pyro developers is, to put it quite bluntly, BS.

    BTW, it is not that this subject has not been discussed before in great detail. Go to the large format forum and/or photo.net and you will find multiple discussion of this issue.

    I am as concerned about my own health as anyone on this forum. Based on my understanding of the issue the use of pyro developers, such as pyrogallol and pyrocatechin, do not pose any greater risk to my health, or that of my environment, than commonly used developers that contain hydroquinone ( including HC-11 and D76) which is of the same family, and virtually identical in toxicity, to pyrogallol and pyrocatechin.

    Do your develop prints? Hydroquinone is in virtually every print developer old commercially. Please, don't drink your print developer, and be sure to not soak your hands in it. It is actually much more concentrated than film developers.

    Is Rodinal any safer? Well, just find the active reducer and check it out on the MSDS charts.

    AND THE ANSWER IS. DON'T DRINK RODINAL AND DON'T SOAK YOUR HANDS IN IT. AND DON'T ALLOW YOUR DOG TO DRINK IT. IT IS TOXIC.

    Sandy

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