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  1. #11
    clogz's Avatar
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    Any question regarding analogue photography, politely asked, is more than acceptable.

    Hans
    Digital is best taken with a grain of silver.

  2. #12
    clogz's Avatar
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    I simply cannot see what is wrong with inviting somebody else's opinion. It is all a matter of live and let live; always a tad difficult for those who have just discovered their "own" individuality.

    Hans
    Digital is best taken with a grain of silver.

  3. #13
    Dave Parker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by outofoptions
    I quite disagree. You call it rude. I call it blunt. The original poster needs to decide why they take photos and what will be the criteria. His personal preference or what he sees others doing. Sometimes it really is true the whole world is wrong and YOU are right. Or maybe just right for this moment in time. ;-) I will always see it as sad when someone lets others determine their sense of aestetichs. And I don't need to ask ANYONE'S opinion on that.
    After 20 years of making my linving with a camera, I wish I was at the point I did not have to ask others opinions, you must be really good, where can I see your work?

    Dave

  4. #14
    clogz's Avatar
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    I'm glad you're letting your hair down...but please "suffer"others to do the same.

    Hans
    Digital is best taken with a grain of silver.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Satinsnow
    After 20 years of making my linving with a camera, I wish I was at the point I did not have to ask others opinions, you must be really good, where can I see your work?

    Dave
    Well said, Dave!

    I didn't percieve this as a "how should my pictures look" type post. I think it was an invite to discussion and feedback on how we percieve our own work - perhaps to share what questions croos each of our minds when we look at a photograph.

    True enough, I am 100% behind the "follow your own vision" approach. Even if you are making a print for sale - you are getting paid because you are the photographer - knowledge, technique, vision and all. And when printing for yourself, that rings even more true.

    However - I think any hobby or profession is a learning process. I would go as far as to propose that it is the learning that makes anything fascinate us and captivate our interest for a long, long time. And inviting critique and input can only help.

    I, myself, am on the other end of the spectrum - I am a bit of a contrast junky, I think... I like a lot of "pop" in my prints. And yes, I realize that its my "vision" and I want to see it that way - but it was pointed out to me that I have often lost some detail in the shadows, or blown out some highlights. And that was not my "vision" - it was a by product of what I was trying to do. Through input of others, people with a wealth of experience or just people who's opinon I value, I have arrived at prints that I like even more - by realizing that I was going a little overboard in some areas. Am I just giving in to "peer pressure"? Do I not have a mind of my own? I would like to think thats not the case (although I am sure some would argue) - I would like to think I discovered a new level of ability that allowed me to produce things even more true to my "vision" than what I was making before. I simply gained a higher level of ability and a new set of expectations - the input allowed me to set a higher bar for my own work.

    (I had to put the word "vision" in parenthesis - I don't want anyone to think I fancy myself the next Leonardo DaVinci - I was simply at a loss for a better term )

    Cheers,

    Peter.

  6. #16
    clogz's Avatar
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    Well, it's getting a bit late here and I'm off to bed. Tomorrow is another day. With new misunderstandings, no doubt.

    Hans
    Digital is best taken with a grain of silver.

  7. #17
    clogz's Avatar
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    Optionless. I hereby rest my case.
    Digital is best taken with a grain of silver.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by outofoptions
    OK Eric. Was I wrong in what you meant by reading what you said? I think we need to hear back from you on this one. Or did you post and run?
    You can say whatever you want, but I don't waste my time arguing on the web. Post and run? I'm no troll and I'm number 9 on this forum. I ain't going anywhere.

    Hobby? Yah, but I used to do this for a living as well. I've processed thousands of negatives from Bruce Weber, Steven Maisel and a few hundred of Annie Leibowitz (oh, I can tell you stories about her). Dip and dunk and via inspection. So I knows a little something something. I've sat in the darkroom and helped with many very good printers (I guess good enough for those swanky NYC gallery shows that we always printed for) during gallery exhibition printing crunches. Madonna SEX book! I'm proud to say that I was the very, very first person to see those negs (well, me and Emmauel, we did them together). The film baskets came out of my 5 gallon fixer. OH, you should see the ones that didn't make it to the editor!

    I'm guessing most people print for other people. Cause when I know it is right for me, its not right for others. But I think, technically, there's a point where *WE* (collectectively, us on this forum, cause we all know something technical right) all can say "hmmm, that just doesn't look right". But hey, if your name is Ralph Gibson, you can permanetly put #11 filter right on that sucker and nobody will say anything. (Before anyone says anything and there is no such thing as #11 filter, I'm alluding to Spinal Tap)

    Ballet pix? Have you seen works by Roy Round? One of the guys back in the 70's and 80's who was the Joffrey Ballet photog. Yah, I've worked with him. Funny how very talented people wind up doing commercial work to make ends meet. I did manage to get to his show back in the late 80's.

    I think you got confused because one of your replies was questioning my "right" as in my Rights as a Citizen. I didn't mean that and my Brooklyn education must not have been good so the sentence might have confused people.

    So let's say, you see a nice print and say. Hey, that looks pretty good. Then you see one that is about 1/2 grade less and 1/2 grade more contrast. All 3 look technically pretty good. At what point do you say "this one". Do you say "this one" cause it is what most people will pick?

    I love the post from McPhotoX about what feeling and emotion you wanted in the shot. I really like that post. I'm going to remember that when printing. I think, for me, that is the answer. Its very TAO. "The print is right cause that's the way I felt it when I took it" ... in other words.

    And Yellowbeard, I love that website. I'm going to talk pirate all night to my kids when I get home.

  9. #19
    Dave Parker's Avatar
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    Well,

    I do have to say, this has turned out to another BS thread..

    Dave

  10. #20

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    [QUOTE=eric]
    So let's say, you see a nice print and say. Hey, that looks pretty good. Then you see one that is about 1/2 grade less and 1/2 grade more contrast. All 3 look technically pretty good. At what point do you say "this one". Do you say "this one" cause it is what most people will pick?

    I love the post from McPhotoX about what feeling and emotion you wanted in the shot. I really like that post. I'm going to remember that when printing. I think, for me, that is the answer. Its very TAO. "The print is right cause that's the way I felt it when I took it" ... in other words.
    [QUOTE]

    If you make three prints that are all different, but technically they are "good prints" (Proper shadow detail, good highlight detail ect)... deciding what print is the CORRECT print should be simple. Each image would carry a different feel, and you pick the one that expresses how you felt at the moment of photographing.

    They teach students that the "perfect print" has proper shadow detail and proper hightlight detail, so the student would go in and print an image very flat, however it does have detail in all areas of the print! On the other hand, they also say that a perfect print has pure blacks and whites...well, in that case the student would go in and print something very contrasty and loose all the fine tonalities between! Either way, if they end up with a contrasty print with good blacks and whites, or a flat print with good shadow detail and highlight detail...they are just at the beginning of creating the print, but most student will stop at this point!

    When printing an image, I incourage you too print one light, dark, contrast, flat ect...and see which one is more appealing to you. You may use of paper faster, but you will develop a unique printing style of your own and questions like "what is the correct print?" will not come into your mind anymore...because you will know it when you see it!

    Here is a nice quote from Brett Weston. I suggest you take a look at his work. He was a photographer with a very unique printing style unlike anyones I have ever seen, and you could spot his prints out of 100 different photographs. Pick up one of his books as soon as possible, and if you get a chance, view as much work by other photographers as you can.

    "Photography is such a magnificently strong medium. I watch students fussing around, bringing all kinds of detail into the shadows. I try to tell them not to be afraid of photographic blacks. I often black out shadows so that you can't look into them. Many say they can't go to Point Lobos because Dad (Edward Weston) and I have been there, or get involved with other subjects because they've been done. Hell, its all been done---Rocks, nudes, dunes, kelp. But nature is such a magnificent arranger, and it is---all of it---always changing. You have to have an almost microscope sense, a discerning, restless eye. It's also a matter of instantaneous recognition, but you don't get this the first year. You fall in love with the image right off, but the judgement is a long time coming.
    I used to mess around a long time; now I'm much more decisive in getting to the photograph.
    The other thing I find about students is that they can all talk rings around me on technical matters. I've tried to tell them not to get too involved with cameras and lenses. I've got the finest equipment you can possibly obtain, but its all just machines! An obsession with the machinery can be too distracting, particularly in this kind of photography. Its gets in the way of creating." -Brett Weston-


    Best of luck,
    Ryan McIntosh

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