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  1. #1
    mikewhi's Avatar
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    Technical Issues Surrounding Unsensitized Baryta Paper

    Hi:

    I am starting this thread to deal with technical discussion surrounding the possible co-op purchase of this paper from Bergger. I have summarized the open issues below, please feel free to fire at will and discuss these various issues and raise new ones.

    1. SAMPLES to touch, feel, test.
    Personally, I think everyone interested should get at least one sheet of 8x10 to check out.

    2. SIZES. Most people seem to be expressing interest in buying large sheets and cutting them down. I know John and I spoke of 22"x30" being available and he thought cutting that down for people would be a service. Maybe it's something we don't need?

    3. SIZING. Will this paper have a gelatin size? This is an open issue not answered by John. How will this affect Pt\Pd coating?

    4. TESTING. Michael A. Smith will fly to China and test the stuff right at the dock. Oh, wait, that is another co-op..... We need to get one or more concensus experts to try the stuff out and see if it coats well for at least Pt\Pd. I think Craig is an obvious choice and I assume Kerik would be, too?

    5. ALTERNATIVES: Salto as mentioned by MAS, possibly inkjet papers(?) and what PhotoEngineer said.


    -Mike

  2. #2
    Jeremy's Avatar
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    Cutting it down to a standard large size (e.g. 22x30") seems to me the best way to go. I can cut my own paper down to the sizes I need and this will probably keep the cost down.
    Let's see what I've got in the magic trash can for Mateo!

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  3. #3

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    22x30 works for me, if we start asking for different sizes the price will go up.

    I would like a sample myself, maybe a couple of sheets of 8x10 so we can make a couple of prints and see how it looks.

    According to PE the binding element for the barium sulfate is gelatin, so it might have some gelatin, hopefully not enough to prevent the baryta to absorb the solution easily, other wise might as well just do it with fixed out paper...no?

    PE mentioned ink jet papers have quaternary ammonium substances in them, if so this papers would probably have to be pre treated in an acid bath to neutralize them, but I think it is a viable option, if it can absorb and retain ink I see no reason why it cannot do the same with a pt/pd solution.

    I thought Salto was using regular paper but doing 2 or 3 passes with in register negatives. If they are using a specially made paper it would be nice if they let us know who is making it.

  4. #4

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    Jorge,

    I doubt many inkjet papers will survive the time required in the developer and wash baths to make an archival print. This is ultimately where many papers fail, not in the coating properties, but in the baths. You need a very solid paper to withstand a 45 minute soak, with some of it in warm or hot water.

    I have not tried any inkjet paper, but I understand that they also may not be receptive to enough solution to make a suitble pt/pd print as well. Anyone have any success with pt/pd on coated inkjet papers?

    ---Michael
    www.mutmansky.com
    B&W photography in Silver, Palladium, and gum bichromate.

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Mutmansky
    Jorge,

    I doubt many inkjet papers will survive the time required in the developer and wash baths to make an archival print. This is ultimately where many papers fail, not in the coating properties, but in the baths. You need a very solid paper to withstand a 45 minute soak, with some of it in warm or hot water.

    I have not tried any inkjet paper, but I understand that they also may not be receptive to enough solution to make a suitble pt/pd print as well. Anyone have any success with pt/pd on coated inkjet papers?

    ---Michael
    I dont know Michael, some of the new ink jet papers are 300 gsm, this is pretty heavy, heavier than Arches Platine. I have been wanting to try them but they are hard to find here in Mexico, unless Office Depot has them I am out of luck.

    The only way to find out if they work or we can make them work is by trying them, if anybody is willing to send me some I would pay for the paper as well as s&h.

  6. #6
    Jeremy's Avatar
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    I've got some Epson Heavyweight Matte paper. When I'm next printing I'll coat a sheet and see what happens.

    edit: I think may also have some Epson watercolor paper and some Pictorico watercolor paper--if I can find them I'll give them a shot, too.
    Let's see what I've got in the magic trash can for Mateo!

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  7. #7
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    Every ink jet paper I have tried has survived a standard B&W process at 68 deg F intact. However, their effects on the silver halide emulsion varied all over the map. I suspect the same would be true for Pt/Pd.

    Only some papers contain the quat salts, and some others have entirely different ingredients such as the ceramic particles with 'stuff' embedded in them or not. Each of these will do something different to each type of photographic process.

    Some absorb moisture like desert sands as well, making brush or puddle pusher coating quite difficult. These typically are the instant dry digital papers. They have actually stuck my brush to the surface and pulled out bristles when coating, they suck up the moisture so fast.

    The baryta may contain glycerol (glycerine), barium sulfate, dyes and pigments as well as gelatin. It may or may not have a supercoat of gelatin depending on the source. It may also have been rolled in a hot press (calendaring) to give it gloss, or it may have in it or coated on it starch or methyl methacrylate beads to give it a matte finish. This latter is not common, as it is usually done in an overcoat on the emulsion, but it is known to exist.

    That is why I agree heartily that an expert in each field that is planning on using this paper should test the paper for suitability.

    Remember, I believe that this is not the only effort of its kind going on right now. The others are not public AFAIK.

    Oh, one other thing to consider. In the larger sizes, you will pay a shipping premium for the paper to be packaged and sent out. This is due to the premium placed on oversize packages to prevent damage. You may want to look into the optimum size / shipping cost ratio as well. Also the # of sheets / pkg which is optimum.

    PE

  8. #8
    mikewhi's Avatar
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    bumping....



 

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