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  1. #11
    Ole
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    Gevaert G262 is another good warm-tone developer, tone depends on dilution. It's been mentioned in earlier threads, but it seems the recipe isn't posted yet.
    -- Ole Tjugen, Luddite Elitist
    Norway

  2. #12

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    For Gevaert G 262 take a look at:

    http://jerryo.com/formula/pdev.htm
    Tom Hoskinson
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  3. #13

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    I have posted the formulas for Gevaert G-261 (Glycin/Hydroquinone) and Gevaert G-262 (Hydroquinone only) in the APUG Chemical Recipes Section
    Tom Hoskinson
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  4. #14
    Ian Grant's Avatar
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    Thanks Tom, for Johns benefit I'll add that ID-78 has very similar properties to the liquid form of Neutol WA, with tonality, image colour and speed, and has better keeping qualities.

    Beware as the formula has been published incorrectly in the US and the mistake perpetuated many times in various publications over at least a 35+ year period, (and also by a contributor to this thread), the correct level of Bromide is 4.5gms KBr in the stock solution.

    It does seem to have a remarkable resistance to aerial oxidation, and will certainly last in a tray for about 30hrs, so probably very much longer in a Nova system. However as I usually exhaust it with throughput very much sooner I cn't predict life span in a NOva tank, but it should be good.

    Ian

  5. #15
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    Thanks for that info Ian. By coincidence I have only 1 more mix of Neutol WA left in the bottle for my Nova and all the chemicals to make ID-78 in the cupboard.

    Wonder if the new warmtone developer from Ilford will be ID-78?!...

    Cheers, Bob.

  6. #16

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    Hello!

    The following Neutol WA clone was published in the German Foto & Labor in 1996:

    Neutol WA F&L
    Achtung: Rezeptur für 1000 ccm Konzentrat! Recipe will give 1000 ccm of concentrate
    Wasser – water -(50 °C) 300 ccm
    EDTANa4 10 g
    Kaliumsulfitlösung – potassium sulphite - (45%) 50 ccm
    Hydrochinon – hydriquinone - 45 g
    Phenidon 1,5 g
    Kaliumsulfitlösung – potassium sulphite - (45%) 450 ccm
    Kaliumcarbonat – potassium carbonate - 45 g
    Kaliumhydroxid – potassium hydroxide - 15 g
    Kaliumbromid – potassium bromide - 10 g
    Wasser auf 1000 ccm
    pH-Wert (bei 1+9) 10,70—10,90, Verdünnung für den Gebrauch: 1+7 bis 1+14. For use dilute 1 + 7 to 1 +14
    Die Kallumsulfitlösung (45% w/w) wird auf zweimal zugegeben, damit die Entwicklersubstanzen geschützt sind und sich zügig lösen. Entwicklungszeit 1—1,5 min. Das Konzentrat ist in Glasflaschen gefüllt mehrere Jahre haltbar.
    Developping time 60 to 90 seconds. Stored in a glass bottle the concentrate will keep several years
    Source: Foto & Labor, 3/ 1996, page 17

    Manfred

  7. #17

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    Thank you Manfred. This concentrated formulation contains the same ingredients (with the understandable exception of Potassium Hydroxide) shown in the Agfa MSDS for Agfa Neutol WA.
    http://www.apug.org/forums/article.php?a=23

    It is a very similar formulation to that of Ilford ID-78 - the proportions are a bit different and Sodium compounds are used (in ID-78) instead of Potassium.

    The amount of Phenidone in the WA concentrate is considerably reduced compared to ID-78.

    EDTA, Tetrasodium salt (a sequestrant) is not called out, but that is an unimportant difference.

    A perhaps more important difference is the reduced (for the working solution) amount of Potassium Bromide.
    Tom Hoskinson
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  8. #18

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    Thank you very much, Manfred. The formula is much better than guessing from the MSDS. It is somewhat similar to the ID78, when you take into account the dilutions. The amount of phenidone is not so very different to ID78. Maybe Agfa's traditional warm tone developers with hydroquinone as the only developing agent were the basis for Neutol-WA, and they added just enough phenidone to make the developer active enough to be a general purpose developer. There's a lot less carbonate than in ID78, but helped along by some hydroxide. From an industrial point of view, it's probably very economical to make.

    Does the EDTA-4Na increase the life, or is it just to prevent sludge forming?

    Ryuji asked about the pH of Neutol-WA. According to the Australian MSDS, the pH of the normal working solution (1+7) is 11.0 approx, the pH of the concentrate is 11.7 approx, and the specific gravity is 1.375 (concentrate).

  9. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by john_s
    Does the EDTA-4Na increase the life, or is it just to prevent sludge forming?
    EDTA-4Na is a sequestrant (i.e. a water softener). It does not increase the solution life.
    Tom Hoskinson
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  10. #20

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    Whatever the formula might be, A&O Group just informed me that Neutol WA is among the AgfaPhoto chemicals it will continue to manufacture.

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