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  1. #11
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    Thank god for that; I thought my eyesight was going!
    The destination is important, but so is the journey

  2. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by lee
    I agree with the fact that Ilford still is promoting
    5-10-5 in washing fiber base paper.

    Ann and FrankB are certainly correct in their statements.
    Page 2 right hand column third paragraph from the top.
    You have not read the March 2002 PDF which indicates a
    5-10-20 minute sequence.

    This matter is somewhat complex. Does anybody
    remember the Ilford Archival Wash Sequence? That
    sequence was predicated upon a 1 minute fix in FILM
    1:3 strength Rapid Fixer followed by the 5-10-5
    minute wash, their HCA, wash, routine.

    A year or two ago Ilford updated at least some PDFs.
    For those that remember the older PDFs you may
    recall specific mention of the Ilford Archival
    Sequence.

    Two important points: 1, that sequence is no longer
    mentioned March or August and 2, they do NOT distinguish
    twixt the 1:3 - 1:4 and 1:9 dilutions.

    My conclusion is that Ilford is no longer promoting their
    Archival Wash Sequence and the 5-10-5 wash routine
    which was part and partial with that sequence.

    So, it might be asked, will 5-10-5 do the job? Not for
    archival results and that is according to Ilford because
    the current PDFs also include the 1:9 2 minute fix.

    "For prints that need maximum stability ... " Ilford does
    mention the lower per unit volume silver levels permissable.

    Although Ilford does not even mention an Archival Sequence
    they do go into the details of the "extremely efficient" two
    bath method. Dan

  3. #13
    lee
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    first the link that I went to is the dec 2001 and I dont know where the pdf for 2002 is. Can you supply a link for this? If so, I would like to read it.

    I think I will continue to use a method of washing for about an hour as I know that I can get clean paper that way.

    lee\c

  4. #14
    lee
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    the only Mar 2002 pdf I found on ilford.com is for gallery paper and if you follow down to the washing proceedures it does recommend 60 min now if you contiue down to Optimum it touts the old 5-10-5 routine.

    lee\c

  5. #15

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    have to agree with Lee, Ann and Frank...just went to Ilfords website and looked at the PDF for Ilford Rapid Fixer and it list the 5-10-5. The 60 min wash time is listed, but only when not using a wash aid. (this PDF was from Aug. 2002). So it is possible that Ilford has dropped the 5-10-5, but I find nothing on the website that indicates this.
    Mike C

    Rambles

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by dancqu
    You have not read the March 2002 PDF which indicates a
    5-10-20 minute sequence.
    Quote Originally Posted by dancqu
    Two important points: 1, that sequence is no longer
    mentioned March or August and 2, they do NOT distinguish
    twixt the 1:3 - 1:4 and 1:9 dilutions.

    My conclusion is that Ilford is no longer promoting their
    Archival Wash Sequence and the 5-10-5 wash routine
    which was part and partial with that sequence.
    Dan, I'm confused as to which PDF's you're consulting. Could you post some links?

    Alternatively, please follow the links I've posted to the Ilford website where the PDF's (dated Aug 2002) myself and others have indicated do still refer to the 5-10-5 sequence.
    The destination is important, but so is the journey

  7. #17

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    There is something different about the Ilford recommendations on the 12/2001 pdf than the Ilford WT paper insert I have hanging on the wall of my darkroom. The fixing/washing procedure appears to be different and there's nothing in the pdf about a two-fixer bath. A separate 12/2001 pdf, "Processing B&W Paper", does mention the two fixers.

    I'm at work right now, doing this while I'm trying to do other stuff, so I can't compare the information and I might have missed something in the pdfs from the Ilford website.

  8. #18
    ann
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    well, the easiest thing is to go to the horses mouth, i am going to check with Ilford, or at least with someone who has their ear.

  9. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by dancqu
    So, it might be asked, will 5-10-5 do the job? Not for
    archival results and that is according to Ilford because
    the current PDFs also include the 1:9 2 minute fix.
    I'll put that above quote differently as it is misleading.
    At least according to Ilford an adherence to the Ilford
    Archival Sequence will yield archival results.

    According to Martin Reed in his article Mysteries of the
    Vortex, Photo Techniques Special Issue #11, "Major research
    by Ilford culminated in the 1981 publication of their archival
    processing sequence, based on careful control of the quality
    and timing of the fixing stage."

    In a nut shell; a very short wash time results from the use
    of a high strength fixer for a short period of time. In 1981
    the time was 30 seconds in Ilford Universal Rapid Fixer
    diluted 1:3. The paper base, which is slow to wash,
    is, even with a stronger fix, less affected.

    But the sequence, due to the high levels of silver at full or
    near full capacity in that one fix, is very dependent upon
    an extended 10 minute stay in Ilford's brand of HCA.

    This whole issue is much ado about nearly nothing. With
    FB papers I consider nothing less than an Archival routine.
    I've mentioned the word archival several times. That is
    the context in which I write. The OP's mention of a
    5 minute wash is what set me off. I didn't mean
    to ruffle any feathers. Dan

  10. #20
    lee
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    but the point is Dan they STILL recommend the 5-10-5 in EACH of the pdfs. You said the recommendations from Ilford had changed and now that people challenged you, you have attempted to change the conversation. It may be much ado about nothing to you but you attempted to tell me that I did not know what I have read on Ilford's site. I don't appreciate being called a liar in so many words. Where you get your ideas I will never know and until you show me work you have actually produced that proves you know what the heck you think you know I will take you as someone trying to appear to be something you are not. Time to put up or shut up, Dan.

    lee\c

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