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  1. #71

    Join Date
    Jan 2004
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    601
    Quote Originally Posted by Christian Kolinski
    Not to "put out garbage" as you said, here some differences:

    Rodinal is bottled under inert gas atmosphere, wich means it doesn't start ageing (e.g.: change color) till you open it.

    R09 is pitch black bought new.

    Second: at least one batch of the bottels used for R09 dissolved themselve and haven't been fully air-tight, speeding up ageing of R09. Some where really bad quality, cracking open at the seam near the cap rather easy.

    That's a simple reason why Rodinal is said to last longer than R09: Less contact with oxygen means longer shelf life. When Rodinal is stored unopend theres _no_ oxygen to react with. While there is enough to turn R09 black.

    See my point?

    Christian
    Here's the point as you are perfectly aware. Your post was as follows:

    "Well, if you compare the bottles Rodinal ships in and those R09 is, you may find a quick answer to why R09 won't last as long as Rodinal."

    Essentially claiming in some sort of dramatic way that if someone picks up a bottle of R09 they will see the difference. This of course is complete garbage.

    Now you come back with stories of R09 bottles that mystically vaporize and self destruct. Even if there were some defective bottles at some point this is a one time manufacturing defect. Trying to characterize a one time defect as a characteristic of the developer is garbage. We've sold quite a bit of R09 over the years and have never seen a leaking or self destructing bottle.

    You are right, R09 is pitch black when you get it. The small amount of air in the bottle reacts and turns it black. When the oxygen runs out the reaction stops. It doesn't just go on forever in a sealed bottle. So the R09 is stable in this nice black state. Rodinal is packaged under inert gas to make it look pretty in the nice white bottle they use. I remember when Rodinal came in the amber glass bottles and looked pretty dark. I guess that Agfa Rodinal didn't have the staying power of todays version either? Both developers are stable in the bottle and will last a long time..

    Then you post this:

    "Yes, although this discussion is on a "20 vs. 40 years of shelf life" level. Rodinal/R09 needs a really, really long time till it's unusable."

    So you admit that your initial post was really bogus and bottom feeding because obviously someone isn't going to pick up a bottle of R09 and see that it is only a 20 year bottle instead of a 40 year bottle.

    My only question to myself is why as I'm sitting in Berlin am I wasting my time on such absurdity?
    www.jandcphoto.com

  2. #72

    Join Date
    Jul 2005
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    Just for the record, I had an Agfa bottle self destruct when I squeezed the air out of it. SEveral years later it was found empty, having leaked out a slight crease in the bottle. OK, may I helped it self-destruct, but there you have it anyway.

  3. #73

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    Oct 2004
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    Germany
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    Quote Originally Posted by jandc
    Essentially claiming in some sort of dramatic way that if someone picks up a bottle of R09 they will see the difference. This of course is complete garbage.

    Now you come back with stories of R09 bottles that mystically vaporize and self destruct. Even if there were some defective bottles at some point this is a one time manufacturing defect. Trying to characterize a one time defect as a characteristic of the developer is garbage. We've sold quite a bit of R09 over the years and have never seen a leaking or self destructing bottle.

    My only question to myself is why as I'm sitting in Berlin am I wasting my time on such absurdity?
    The question of JON@jb-ci was why Rodinal has a reputation of better shelf live than R09.

    A simple answer is: because Calbe ruined (a bit harsh) or better damaged theirs by useing not so well made bottles. I wasn't the only one who had trouble with them, I could point you to several sources (in german...) of people having the same trouble. So it wasn't a one-time thing that happened only to me...

    And would JON@jb-ci get the same type of bottle I got he really would have seen.

    I _never_ said R09 was a bad developer, but the bottles it was delivered in were crap, at least some time ago (I'd be happy to see better ones. If they now use the same as the Adofix I bought from Mirko some time ago they have learned, same construction but way better craftmanship).

    And is the reputation damaged you'll have a very hard way of fixing it. Agfa for exampe was never able to fully recover from the Color Paper Type 3 desaster of the early 80s (you know, the one loosing blue after a few month).

    And the question I ask myself: I pointed out that the problem is the bottle and _not_ R09 as chemical. Why do you insinst I said something against R09 as a developer?

    Christian
    Last edited by Christian Kolinski; 11-03-2005 at 02:52 PM. Click to view previous post history.

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