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  1. #1
    Marco Gilardetti's Avatar
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    Forte Polywarmtone Plus, but no warm tones.

    Dear fellows, I have printed through an entire box of Forte Polywarmtone plus during this weekend, and I have to say that the product is outstanding.

    I thought that Agfa Neutol WA (I had some in stock) was the perfect choice for this kind of paper, but I can't see the premised "warm tone". Actually, I have always failed to achieve any kind of warm tone from any kind of paper by using Neutol WA.

    What's the matter with the thing? Or may I don't know what "warm" means, perhaps? Of course I don't expect to obtain sepia-toned prints, but these seem pure cold black as usual.

    Somebody tried the specific Forte warm tone developer? Is it fine, and WARM?
    Last edited by Marco Gilardetti; 11-04-2005 at 06:54 AM. Click to view previous post history.
    I know a chap who does excellent portraits. The chap is a camera.
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  2. #2
    abeku's Avatar
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    Strange, Marco! I was spending last night in the darkroom working with Forte polywarmtone and Neutol WA, a marvellous combination, ending up with prints with a brown warm tone, leaning towards green depending on what light you are using. Have you compared your prints to a paper known to be a "cold" paper?
    - You will develop when you become an analog photographer / Exposed Material / Monochromes

  3. #3
    Marco Gilardetti's Avatar
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    Yes, standard Ilford paper in Ilford Multicontrast. Now, that's amazing.

    When you say "brown", you mean a difference that even a blind could see, or a super-slight tonal drift?

    At which diluition you used the Agfa WA? That may be the key.

    And which fixer? The booklet leaves room to the hypothesis that some fixers may alter the warm tone.
    I know a chap who does excellent portraits. The chap is a camera.
    (Tristan Tzara, 1922)

  4. #4
    abeku's Avatar
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    The brown is evident. You wouldn't miss it. I dilute Neutol 1+8 and I use a fixer from Calbe called A300. Sure you have Neutol WA and not NE?
    - You will develop when you become an analog photographer / Exposed Material / Monochromes

  5. #5
    Marco Gilardetti's Avatar
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    Sure, absolutely. I used it 1+9 so it shouldn't make a big difference, I guess. Now, this is a mistery. The only thing that comes to mind is that it was quite old, though still transparent and well preserved, not yellowish. It was very active as a standard developer, but may it have lost its "warming" abilities over time, perhaps?
    I know a chap who does excellent portraits. The chap is a camera.
    (Tristan Tzara, 1922)

  6. #6
    abeku's Avatar
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    Here's a quick scan of a print from last night. The Forte paper on top of a Oriental paper (with a neutral tone), both processed in Neutol WA for 1.5-2 minutes. Striking difference, isn't it?[/IMG]
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails vue0264.jpg  
    - You will develop when you become an analog photographer / Exposed Material / Monochromes

  7. #7
    Mongo's Avatar
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    My favored warm paper is Ilford MGIV FB, and the warm tone from that paper, when developed in Neutol-WA, is extremely evident. I'm surprised to hear that you're having this issue with the Forte paper, given that the examples I've seen have all been so obviously warmtone with that paper. The images have been brown-and-white, not black-and-white. Which is, really, what you want from a warmtone paper.

    I generally run Neuto-WA at 1:14, but would expect very warm images at 1:9 with a warmtone paper.

    Have you tried looking at the images under different lights? Perhaps that's your issue...I know that under some flourescents my warmtone prints look a little less warmtone to me...hopefully your problem is something as simple as this. The other thing that might help would be to know the rest of your processing routine (stop bath, fixer, wash cycle, etc.). There might be something in there that's causing you problems.

    Best of luck to you.
    Dave
    Film is cheap. Opportunities are priceless.

  8. #8
    Marco Gilardetti's Avatar
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    I guess you meant Ilford MG FB Warmtone, right? I don't like that paper very much, as its base is not pure white but creamy, so switched to something else immediately.

    However, wash has no effect as in the fixer it's already evident that the warmtone is not there. Process is: Neutol WA 1+9, 4 mins; Ilford Ilfostop Indicator 1+19, 1 min; Ornano Superfix 1+9, 4 mins. But again, I guess the key is in the developer only.

    Did anyone ever got warm tones with Agfa WA even from Ilford MGIV polithene paper perhaps? I remember doing side-by-side comparisons with MGIV when the Agfa WA was fresh new, and could see absolutely no difference. If there SHOULD be difference, probably I ran into an Agfa NE batch wrongly packed as WA.
    I know a chap who does excellent portraits. The chap is a camera.
    (Tristan Tzara, 1922)

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco Gilardetti

    However, wash has no effect as in the fixer it's already evident that the warmtone is not there. Process is: Neutol WA 1+9, 4 mins; Ilford Ilfostop Indicator 1+19, 1 min; Ornano Superfix 1+9, 4 mins. But again, I guess the key is in the developer only.
    I have heard, but not experienced myself, that a more diluted developer and longer development reduces the warm tone. Try to dilute 1+7 or less and expose your prints a bit more. Develop for a maximum of 2 minutes.

    To be honest, I find that the effect of warmtone emulsions vs. neutral or cold tone is subtle. Abeku's examples are good: neutral/cold vs. warmtone. By making the comparison like that the effect is more obvious.

    If you want the polywarmtone to be warm: give it 2 minutes in selenium 1+9. If you want pure chocolate: give it 4 minutes. That is IMO the cool thing about Forte, the papers are so easy to manipulate with toners.

    Check out the attachment. That's Fortezo in selenium for 3,5 minutes. My experience with Forte Polywarmtone is that it behaves similarly to Fortezo, but slightly slower.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails forte_fortezo_selen.jpg  

  10. #10
    Marco Gilardetti's Avatar
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    Wasn't it exactly the opposite? Higher diluitions, warmer tones? Plus, it's not a developer-incorporated paper, 4 mins at 20° are necessary for the image to form fully. 2 mins are an Ilfospeed-like time, as far as I recall.

    Well, I don't know. Will buy Forte's specific developer + fixer and see.
    I know a chap who does excellent portraits. The chap is a camera.
    (Tristan Tzara, 1922)

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