Switch to English Language Passer en langue française Omschakelen naar Nederlandse Taal Wechseln Sie zu deutschen Sprache Passa alla lingua italiana
Members: 70,536   Posts: 1,544,245   Online: 733
      
Results 1 to 9 of 9
  1. #1

    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Göteborg, Sweden
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    558
    Images
    4

    Paper developer dilution and image tone

    Hi!

    Could you all explain how paper developer dilution affects image tone? I have gotten contradictory information, or, perhaps more likely, have mixed the information in my brain and nothing good came out.

    Let's say Dektol for developer, and Ilford MGIV WT FB and MGIV FB. How does different dilutions of the developer affect the image tone of the warm tone and the neutral tone papers? Please feel free to "change papers" if you think those are inappropriate for a test like this.

    I have read about adding restrainers in the developer. Are there different restrainers? Do they affect tone differently?

    As always, thanks for you time and effort!

    *henning

  2. #2
    titrisol's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Rotterdam
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    1,671
    Images
    8
    I think more diluted developer = warmer tones (in WT papers)

    Even though the development times are longer

    I'm very fond of Ethol LPD for these tricks, I've used it up to dilution of 1+20 and with Ilford WT, AGFA MCP/MCC, and Paterson WT gives very interesting effects.

    PS. More dilute developer also change the way the papers react to selenium and sulfide toners!

    Our firend Ann Clancy gave me a very coherent explanation of why this happened but can;t recall it from the top of my head
    Mama took my APX away.....

  3. #3
    Les McLean's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Northern England on the Scottish border
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    1,610
    Generally with warm tone papers a more dilute developer will produce a warmer tone than when the developer is diluted to the manufacturers recommendation. I have little experience of how this would affect a neutral paper although I suspect that it will slightly warm the paper. Try different dilutions with both papers and you'll be surprised at the results. Don't just change the dilution by small amounts, for example if normal dilution is 1 to 9 try 1 to 40 or 50 and extend the development time I predict that you will produce an almost red print with some warm tone papers. The best way to discover these things is to spend an afternoon in the darkroom with one negative and after starting with normal dilution to produce a reference print gradually dilute the developer more and more to campare results when the prints are dry. Don't forget to make a note on the back of each print what dilution was used.

    Adding restrainers to the developer will change both tone and contrast.
    10 to 15 ml of a 10% solution of Bromide will warm up paper expecially warm tone paper. Be careful not to add too much bromide for that will give a green cast and could competely flatten the image.

    Benzoriazole will increase contrast and cool the paper. I mix 1 gram to 500ml water and, depending on the effect I want, add 50 to 100 ml of the dilute solution to the working developer.

    Experiment and keep notes and you will soon be able to predict the results.
    "Digital circuits are made from analogue parts"
    Fourtune Cookie-Brooklyn May 2006

    Website: www.lesmcleanphotography.com

  4. #4

    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    fairfield county, Ct.
    Shooter
    Large Format
    Posts
    1,817
    Images
    24

    Tones

    Les has given some excellant advice here. For years and years I followed the dictum of using Dektol and Benzo via the AA school of printing. About ten years ago I decided to start making my own developers and seeing what I could do to alter the paper. It really comes down to spending the time with one paper and one developer then either adding or subtracting components to achieve the look you desire. But MORE importantly it involves knowing the paper and to what limits you can take it. Shifts in color can be extremely subtle so you should have an idea of where you are going and then how to get there. It might take alot more than one afternoon to learn this. Another point is that many of the recipes listed/published for paper developing are no longer valid with modern papers. Paper making has changed hence older formiulas have little or no effect on them. Exception to the rule are the Forte papers which made in the OLD style or as close to old style as possible.
    Have fun playing......
    Best, Peter

  5. #5
    Mongo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    960
    As always, Les has the best advice. I'll add that I just checked the instructions on a can of Ethol LPD, and it definately says that more dilution equals warmer tones. (As I mentioned in another post, this has been the "common wisdom" with which I've worked for years.)

    Be well.
    Dave
    Film is cheap. Opportunities are priceless.

  6. #6
    thefizz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Trim, Ireland.
    Shooter
    Medium Format
    Posts
    2,040
    Images
    37
    I was about to ask a similar question so I will hijack your thread Henning.

    If I use a more dilute developer with extended developing time, do I also need to extend the exposure time or does this remain the same.

    Peter

  7. #7
    Mongo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    960
    Keep your exposure time constant.
    Film is cheap. Opportunities are priceless.

  8. #8
    Blighty's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Lancaster, N.W. England
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    876
    Images
    68
    I have thought of using very dilute dev. for increasing the warmth of the print, but does this affect D-max in any way?
    Norman is an island.Time and tide wait for Norman.

  9. #9
    Les McLean's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Northern England on the Scottish border
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    1,610
    Quote Originally Posted by Blighty
    I have thought of using very dilute dev. for increasing the warmth of the print, but does this affect D-max in any way?
    Not if you do a test strip and give enought exposure.
    "Digital circuits are made from analogue parts"
    Fourtune Cookie-Brooklyn May 2006

    Website: www.lesmcleanphotography.com



 

APUG PARTNERS EQUALLY FUNDING OUR COMMUNITY:



Contact Us  |  Support Us!  |  Advertise  |  Site Terms  |  Archive  —   Search  |  Mobile Device Access  |  RSS  |  Facebook  |  Linkedin