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  1. #11
    Donald Qualls's Avatar
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    From my reading on this, I understand lith printing requires a HUGE amount of exposure -- that is, many minutes for paper that would require a minute or less for development in Dektol; it then takes a relatively long time for the image to begin to appear in the lith developer. Is it possible your paper either simply didn't get enough light for the lith developer to bring up an image, or wasn't left in the developer long enough (like fifteen minutes, if I recall correctly)?
    Photography has always fascinated me -- as a child, simply for the magic of capturing an image onto glossy paper with a little box, but as an adult because of the unique juxtaposition of science and art -- the physics of optics, the mechanics of the camera, the chemistry of film and developer, alongside the art in seeing, composing, exposing, processing and printing.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by nextreme
    Hi, yes part B is cloudy, and still has a strong acetone odor. Working solution is clearer, maybe just a tint of cloudiness, and has a much less pronouced acetone odor.
    Can I fix this, or is it just no good ? Also, was considering trying Ansco 81, but I can't find dilutions to use with paper developing.

    Many thanks for all the replies !
    Steven
    Steven, residual acetone odor indicates that the formation of the sulfite adduct was incomplete. Less alkali was formed than desired, but by how much is hard to determine. Also, acetone reacts itself with alkali, forming polymeric compounds IIRC, and can further tie up the alkali.

    To my way of thinking, this is a very qualitative way of making a developer and I would not use it myself personally. By all means, try other lith developers, and Donald has a very good point above about exposure.

    PE

  3. #13

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    Looking at the formula, I would guess that acetone is in excess in B, so that it can absorb the sulfite in A when the solutions are mixed together. So it would make sense that even as designed, part B would have an acetone smell.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by psvensson
    Looking at the formula, I would guess that acetone is in excess in B, so that it can absorb the sulfite in A when the solutions are mixed together. So it would make sense that even as designed, part B would have an acetone smell.
    Quite possibly true (I didn't do a molar calculation), but the excess acetone, if present, would begin reacting with the sodium hydroxide in an aldol condensation creating polymers and reducing the amount of acetone available for producing further base thereby possibly reducing the alkalinity. The point is that this is a qualitative method for generating base in situ.

    It can be used, but I wouldn't.

    It is so much easier to add X grams of NaOH. One ingredient instead of 2 and having to hope that things turn out for the best. The relative concentration of NaOH and the rate of appearance in soltuion would depend on room temperature as well.

    PE

  5. #15

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    [QUOTE=nextreme]
    Hello Everyone, I just tried mixing ...
    D-85 Two Solution Lith Developer

    Solution A
    Water at 125° F 500 ml
    Sodium sulphite 36.5 g
    Boric acid crystals 9.4 g
    Hydroquinone 28 g
    Potassium bromide 2 g
    Water to make 1 litre

    Solution B

    Water at 90 ° F 500 ml
    Sodium bisulphite 11 g
    Sodium sulphite 1 g
    Paraformaldehyde 37.5 g
    Water to make 1 litre
    QUOTE]

    By way of contrast, Wall's Normal Hydroquinone:

    Solution A;
    Sodium Sulfite 100 grams
    Hydroquinone 20 grams
    H2O to make 1 liter

    Solution B;
    Sodium Carbonate 110 grams
    H2O to make 1 liter

    I've substituted 110 grams of S. CO3 for the 120
    grams of P. CO3 in the original formula.

    Mix 1:1 and dilute for paper ???
    That they don't say. Well, lith is for film is it not?

    Those three chemicals will produce lith prints. I concocted
    a Wall's similar developer which worked well. If you give Wall's
    Normal Hydroquinone a try use it one-shot. I would brew up
    a 1/20 batch and test. Only enough sulfite should be used
    to preserve the hydroquinone. I think the HQ to CO3
    ratio in the ballpark. You may wish to tweak. Dan

  6. #16

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    Thanks everyone for the info.

    I did add 2 stops more exposure than what was required for development in a normal developer, but it was not in the order of minutes, and the test strip was left in the developer for ~20mins.

    Not sure how I will proceed yet, but I'll probably try another formula.

  7. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by nextreme
    Not sure how I will proceed yet, but I'll
    probably try another formula.
    Your first Home Brew, D-85. That's jumping in the deep end.
    I suspect you committed a lot of chemistry; a live and
    learn experience.

    I'm a little amused at the fixes suggested for Kodak's D-85.
    AFAIK, that formula has been producing a sold dependable lith
    developer for 60, 70, maybe 80 years. I did not take note but
    in the 50s when doing process camera work and half-tone
    production D-85 may have been there.

    D-85 is just one of many lith developers. I'm very sure it's
    intended use was and is publishing and newspaper plants. One
    of many developers intended for that purpose. I can just about
    guarantee that EVERY lith formula you look at is intended for
    film and LOTS of it.

    Your advantage in compounding your own chemistry is one of
    batch size. I've a .01 gram Acculab scale. I weigh no amounts
    less than 1 gram. Where smaller amounts are called for, stock
    or concentrates are used. Perhaps only a few drops of this or
    that from a bottle is all that is needed.

    Give a one gram HQ Ansco 81 a try. Leave out the citric acid
    and the bromide. The citric I think is a many years ago Calgon;
    the bromide, to counter the high activity of the developer
    and for the films of days gone by.

    Tweak the carbonate level and see what happens. If the
    developer turns any more than a little yellow while developing,
    up the sulfite a bit. I've a very well lighted Graded paper
    darkroom. No problem watching the action. Dan

  8. #18
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    I would like to point out that the last use by EK of Paraformaldehyde was in the E1 stabilizer bath. The results were so variable that it was never used again or recommended in any product.

    PE

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