Switch to English Language Passer en langue française Omschakelen naar Nederlandse Taal Wechseln Sie zu deutschen Sprache Passa alla lingua italiana
Members: 69,731   Posts: 1,515,256   Online: 810
      
Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 32
  1. #11

    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Chicago, Western Suburbs
    Shooter
    4x5 Format
    Posts
    1,431
    Dear iserious,

    Could you have forgotten to account for bellows extension? (Something I must admit to on occasion.<g>)

    Neal Wydra

  2. #12

    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Downers Grove Illinois
    Posts
    1,047
    I would suspect the developer being weak. D76 is tempermantal if left in less than full bottles. In a partial bottle, it will first get strong, then die rapidly.

    It is very stable in full glass bottles.

    I run the expert drum fast for 30 sec, then slow to film speed. Faster rotation does not have a material effect on density.

    Just got it! You don`t have enough stock developer. If developer is exhausted, increasing time will not increase density. Four or 5 sheets is all you can process with the expert drum and diluted developer which is one of the reasons I don`t use mine.
    I suggest you try full strength D76. I use it that way even for 35mm.

  3. #13

    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Plymouth. UK.
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    1,399
    Images
    3
    Quote Originally Posted by iserious
    I recently decided to test Tmax & HP5 with several developers and dilutions for application in black & white portraiture. Starting with HP5 i exposed 2 sheets of film for each 1/3 f-stop between Iso 200 & 400 inclusively, using a Wisner Technical Field 4x5 with a Rodenstock Sirronar-S 150mm lens. I metered using a Seikonic L-398 ambient light meter. I decided to start my developer tests with D76, 1:1 - 10 mins @ 20-deg C, Jobo Expert Drum, bi-directional agitation setting "F".

    The resulting negatives, though thin, seem to have all the shadow detail i could want, and the highlights, though perhaps slightly under pronounced, are most definetly there.

    I tried contact-printing these negs using a contact printing frame and Oriental Seagull FB-VC Glossy. I dialed #2 on my Saunders VCCE XLG enlarger, set the lens at f/11 and ran a test strip for d-max using a blank strip of film which I processed together with the exposed sheets. I got 12-seconds for D-max, and started printing off the negs, one by one.

    The results were, well.. baffling. Each and every one of the prints was dark! Surely HP5 rated at iso 200 should not yield dark prints! (or thin negs for that matter). So now as I see it, I'm left with two options:

    1) I can consider the negs "under-exposed" (which i don't truly believe they are as I've got tons of shadow detail) and re-shoot, rating HP5 at ISO 100 -160.

    2) I can print above d-max for the important shades, and then use contrast to acheive my blacks

    As I'm not entirely sure which way to go here, any help and insight would be most appreciated.
    Use the standard small tank times, I usually develop HP5 Plus for 11.75 minutes in a Jobo@20C/68F with #120 rolls. CPA-2 + Lift between P & 4 without a pre-rinse. I expose at EI 400.

  4. #14
    stormbytes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    New England, USA
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    244
    Images
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronald Moravec
    I would suspect the developer being weak. D76 is tempermantal if left in less than full bottles. In a partial bottle, it will first get strong, then die rapidly.

    It is very stable in full glass bottles.

    I run the expert drum fast for 30 sec, then slow to film speed. Faster rotation does not have a material effect on density.

    Just got it! You don`t have enough stock developer. If developer is exhausted, increasing time will not increase density. Four or 5 sheets is all you can process with the expert drum and diluted developer which is one of the reasons I don`t use mine.
    I suggest you try full strength D76. I use it that way even for 35mm.
    Ronald -

    I'm not really concerned with the freshness of the developer as relates to its potency. As I stated in my original post in this thread, the developer was mixed, using distilled water, about a week ago, and kept in a full or mostly full stoppered bottle (plastic/amber).

    Kodak claims that half-full bottles will keep for 2 months, and full-stoppered bottles for 6 months. As I mixed the developer only several days ago, unless we're talking about a bad batch - which I do not suspect, I think the problem lies elsewhere.

    Your second point however seems to bring out an interesting point. Again, I'm not saying that it's necesarily the problem, but it's certainly something I haven't considered and there's no doubt it's a valid point - the strength of the solution.

    Using a Jobo Expert-Drum 3006 (I believe that's the correct model) I add approximately 270ml of solution to the tank, of which only 135ml or thereabouts is D76-Stock. Given 5-6 sheets of 4x5 film per run, I would think that inadequate potency would yeild blotchy and unevenly developed negatives rather then thin ones - though I'm not ruling anything out. Also, given the foregoing quantities, there would be 15-25 ml of D76-Stock per sheet of 4x5 film. I'm not an expert, but I've processed hundreds of rolls of 120 film, comparable in actual area, in similar quantities of developer (albeit perhaps not D76) and often in more dilute solutitions without any problems.

    I've got 2 exposed holders remaining from the earlier batch, rated at EI 320 and 400 respectively. I'm going to try a run using straight, undiluted D76 stock, for 12 min @ 20 C - Jobo bi-dir agitation setting "F".

    I really want to take a moment to thank you for taking the time and submitting your input - even if it doesnt' prove to be the problem in the case at hand, it certainly had me thinking all afternoon and definetly something I won't soon forget in future application.

  5. #15
    stormbytes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    New England, USA
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    244
    Images
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by David A. Goldfarb
    If you have a scanner, could you post a scan of a test print? That might reveal something about what's going on. Have you ruled out lighting issues? What's the contrast ratio?

    It could be that HP5+ just isn't to your taste and you're just after a different look. Tri-X is punchier. J&C 400 is like Tri-X with more manageable highlights. Neopan 400 is smooth with a lot going on in the midrange and highlights.
    David,

    I have an old Epson Perfection 1250 somewhere. I guess I could set it up and scan the print, though I'm not entirely sure what to scan. The image, printed to D-max on whichever paper, prints dark - hardly revealing anything (to my very humble and inexperienced eyes). If I were to print/scan an enlargement, varrying the contrast to yield something scan-worthy, it would probably mask the problem and defeat the purpose of the whole venture.

    I've actually had remarkable results with HP5 roll film in the past. Sadly, at the time, I hadn't kept a darkroom notebook and so I have no data to refer to. I guess that's probably what's gotten me so gung-ho on testing HP5 this time around. As for Tri-X, I've never really played with it but hear that it's comparable to HP5 and the results I've had with HP5 so far as certainly not indicative of anything but own inadequacies - hardly a fault of the fine film.

    I noticed that you are local - NYC

    I live in Brooklyn and find myself going to B&H photo pretty frequently. I'd be happy to buy you a cup of coffee and show you the negatives if you'd be willing to spare the time.

    Thanks as always
    Daniel

  6. #16
    David A. Goldfarb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Honolulu, Hawai'i
    Shooter
    Large Format
    Posts
    17,135
    Images
    20
    HP5+ and TXP are very different looking films.

    The Traveling Portfolio should be heading back to NYC sometime soon, so I'll be having a get-together at my place when it arrives. Keep an eye on the New York Regional forum and I'll make an announcement, and you can bring your negs, and there should be at least a few APUG types there with a few more opinions.
    flickr--http://www.flickr.com/photos/davidagoldfarb/
    Photography (not as up to date as the flickr site)--http://www.davidagoldfarb.com/photo
    Academic (Slavic and Comparative Literature)--http://www.davidagoldfarb.com

  7. #17
    stormbytes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    New England, USA
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    244
    Images
    1

    Ronald - Looks like it's Casino-Night for you Sir.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronald Moravec
    Just got it! You don`t have enough stock developer. If developer is exhausted, increasing time will not increase density. Four or 5 sheets is all you can process with the expert drum and diluted developer which is one of the reasons I don`t use mine. I suggest you try full strength D76. I use it that way even for 35mm.
    Ronald - It sure looks like you hit the nail on the head!

    Not having recovered from the hours of frustration of last night's attempts, I set out to process the 4 sheets of HP5 from the remaining two film holders, left over from the old batch. Of the two filmholders, one was rated at EI 400 while the other was rated at EI 320. I loaded all four sheets into the expert drum, adding half a sheet of film for D-max test strip. The timer was set for 10 minutes, Jobo bi-dir agitation setting "P" @ 20-deg C. I poured in about 270ml of D-76 stock, which I mixed up a few days ago using distilled water. I hit the timer, and completely forgot about it!

    Heh! talk about carelessness!

    After what I can only guess was somewhere between 10-15 minutes, I jumped out of my seat realizing what had happened, and ran for the stop bath. I finished the process, fixing for 10 minutes, with 2 min hypoclear.

    Low and behold! Beautifully dense negative! Slightly underexposed for my taste (keyword there being "my taste", my room mate Ashley vehemently disagrees with me) but printing more then acceptably at D-max (Oriental Seagull VC FB Gloss).

    Lesson learned = Go figure!? Could it be that there indeed was not enough D76 stock in 270ml of solution mixed 1:1? Or could it be that it just needed a bit more time? I'm guessing the former, and I intend to test this out in the next few days.

    If someone knows of a resource where I could find out exactly how much D-76 stock (and other developers if possible) is required to completely develop a square-inch of film, it would solve this mystery once and for all, and I would be most appreciative.

    Ronald... Looks like you've won yourself a new luggage set!

    I'll post results from forthcoming tests as I seek to reproduce tonight's success story.

    A big thanks to all who contributed.

    Cheers
    Daniel

  8. #18
    David A. Goldfarb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Honolulu, Hawai'i
    Shooter
    Large Format
    Posts
    17,135
    Images
    20
    Good catch, Ronald.

    How much D-76 per area of film? Well, it would be normal to process a 35mm roll in 250ml of D-76 (1+1), so that's equivalent to 125ml per 4 sheets of 4x5", but in an inversion tank it wouldn't oxidize as quickly, so maybe it's best to stick with what you're doing with 270ml D-76 stock, if it works. On the other hand, (1+1) should give you better acutance than stock with D-76.

    There are people who use D-76 (1+3), so that would be 63ml stock per 4 sheets, but I'm not sure how well that would work in a Jobo.
    flickr--http://www.flickr.com/photos/davidagoldfarb/
    Photography (not as up to date as the flickr site)--http://www.davidagoldfarb.com/photo
    Academic (Slavic and Comparative Literature)--http://www.davidagoldfarb.com

  9. #19

    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Shooter
    Medium Format
    Posts
    6
    Hallo,

    from the technical paper Kodak has on its web side:
    "Don’t reuse or replenish the diluted
    solution. You can develop one 135-3 roll (80 square inches)
    in 473 mL (16 ounces) or two rolls together in 946 mL
    (one quart) of diluted developer (1+1)."

    4 and half 4x5 sheet film equal approx. 1 135-3 film roll. From the technical manual it can be taken that the minimum volume of Developer needed is 270ml Developer per 135-3 film roll. If you use a 1+3 dilution you need 270ml D76 plus 810ml water.
    If you use less the developer will get exhausted and the film is underdeveloped even if you increase the dev. time.

    I made the same mistake and learned my lesson, always go for the data sheets.

    Regards
    Heinrich

  10. #20

    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Shooter
    Medium Format
    Posts
    6
    sorry,

    I forget to mention that the developer I am refferiong to is is D76

    Regards
    Heinrich

Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast


 

APUG PARTNERS EQUALLY FUNDING OUR COMMUNITY:



Contact Us  |  Support Us!  |  Advertise  |  Site Terms  |  Archive  —   Search  |  Mobile Device Access  |  RSS  |  Facebook  |  Linkedin