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Thread: Pyro Developers

  1. #21

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    Where in hell

    This is not the way to keep a high level professional dialogue going and I am sorry you feel the need to be vulgar and abusive.

    Long before View Camera was started several of us tried and tested many of the staining developers. We tried them with the new t-grain films as well as the traditional films. We have revisited this area several times. The pyrocatechin/pyrocatechol developers were a little better in minus situations but did not appear to be as good an overall developers as the pyro-metol combinations. This was true regardless of the films.I started using the pyro formulae about 1978 and tried everything I could find. When John Wimberly created W2D2 I liked it very much and thought it was much better then the ABC formula - finer grain, easier to use, more stable, higher useable EI, etc., etc. I have been playing with these formulae since that time and have tried every formula I could find. When PMK came along I tried it and liked it very much. I have tried all of the newer formulae and have not found any reason to change. View Camera began looking at these formula more than 10 years ago, before any other magazine (except the articles I wrote for other photo magazines back in the early 80s). We've covered much of this material. If there is more/new interest we can look again.

    I don't care what people use. I have not invented any of the formulae, I do not have any proprietary interest in any of them. IMHO too much effort is sometimes spent in testing, testing, testing and too little time spent making meaningful images.

    I have invited Mr. King to participate in View Camera several times. That invitation is still open. If he feels we have been lax in some area I would welcome his particiaption to fill that gap.

    steve simmons

  2. #22
    Guillaume Zuili's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by steve simmons
    Where in hell


    I don't care what people use. I have not invented any of the formulae, I do not have any proprietary interest in any of them. IMHO too much effort is sometimes spent in testing, testing, testing and too little time spent making meaningful images.

    steve simmons
    Sometime it's good to get out of the kitchen...and take pictures !
    Best,
    Guillaume

  3. #23

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    Steve,

    You completely mis-understood the purpose and intent of my original message, and them communicated your misuderstanding to this forum.

    What I said was this: "In fact, my experince is that very few folks have any clue at all as to the way proportional stain affects the printing characteristics of different film types. And I must say we don't see much understanding of this type in View Camera. Maybe you can work on that."

    Could you please explain what you find in this language that attacks the integrity of View Camea or suggests that you have a personal agenda to promote one formula over another? My criticism is objective and based on pure fact, i.e. there has never been anything published in View Camera that explains the way proportinal stain affects the printing characteristics of different films types, say a comparison of FP4+ with TMAX-100.

    The only point I want to make is that T-grain films such as Tmax-100 and Tmax-400 benefit from devleopment in staining developers at least as much as traditional thick emulsion films. In any staining developer, not just Pyrocat-HD.

    I appreciate the fact that you have invited me to conduct sessions at the View Camera Conference, and I hope to be able to accept your invitation for the next confernce. Further, If you are interested in a short article comparing TMAX-100 and FP4+ in a staining developer, done with good methodology, *including sensitometry* I might consider doing short piece for your magazine. Or you could have someone else do it. But I do believe it would be fairly easy to debunk the myth that TMAX-100 does not do well in staining developers.

    Sandy




    Quote Originally Posted by steve simmons
    Where in hell

    This is not the way to keep a high level professional dialogue going and I am sorry you feel the need to be vulgar and abusive.

    Long before View Camera was started several of us tried and tested many of the staining developers. We tried them with the new t-grain films as well as the traditional films. We have revisited this area several times. The pyrocatechin/pyrocatechol developers were a little better in minus situations but did not appear to be as good an overall developers as the pyro-metol combinations. This was true regardless of the films.I started using the pyro formulae about 1978 and tried everything I could find. When John Wimberly created W2D2 I liked it very much and thought it was much better then the ABC formula - finer grain, easier to use, more stable, higher useable EI, etc., etc. I have been playing with these formulae since that time and have tried every formula I could find. When PMK came along I tried it and liked it very much. I have tried all of the newer formulae and have not found any reason to change. View Camera began looking at these formula more than 10 years ago, before any other magazine (except the articles I wrote for other photo magazines back in the early 80s). We've covered much of this material. If there is more/new interest we can look again.

    I don't care what people use. I have not invented any of the formulae, I do not have any proprietary interest in any of them. IMHO too much effort is sometimes spent in testing, testing, testing and too little time spent making meaningful images.

    I have invited Mr. King to participate in View Camera several times. That invitation is still open. If he feels we have been lax in some area I would welcome his particiaption to fill that gap.

    steve simmons
    Last edited by sanking; 11-20-2005 at 11:52 AM. Click to view previous post history.

  4. #24
    jimgalli's Avatar
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    Peter, I was surprised to see my name in the first post. I got to the discussion late. Out of curiosity which picture was it that you liked? I use both PMK and PcatHD. It'll be fun to see which was used on THAT picture. I'm finding the PMK prints very differently with Platinum than the Pcat does. Much longer printing times to get through the green color.
    He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep..to gain that which he cannot lose. Jim Elliot, 1949

    http://tonopahpictures.0catch.com

  5. #25

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    Post?

    Jim-are you refering to me because I did not make a post in this thread. I do believe that I did make a comment on one of your photos but not in this thread.
    Please advise....
    Peter

  6. #26
    jimgalli's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Schrager
    Jim-are you refering to me because I did not make a post in this thread. I do believe that I did make a comment on one of your photos but not in this thread.
    Please advise....
    Peter
    No, the original poster, thefizz.
    He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep..to gain that which he cannot lose. Jim Elliot, 1949

    http://tonopahpictures.0catch.com

  7. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by sanking
    The point I want to make here is the fact that T-grain films such as Tmax-100 and Tmax-400 benefit from devleopment in staining developers as much if not more than traditional thick emulsion films. In any staining developer, not just Pyrocat-HD.
    Sandy - this is a good opportunity to write the definitive article. I would like to read more about this.
    Kirk

  8. #28

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    Commercial available: Tanol, staining developer from Wolfgang Moersch, Hürth, Germany.
    Even an ex-Ilford employee is advising this developer as highly recommended.

    I can only agree with his point of view.

    Robert
    -----------------------------------------------
    Re: PMK, Pyrocat
    geschrieben von: Fotohuis RoVo (IP gespeichert)
    Datum: 17. November 2005 13:21


    Alternativ: Tanol (1+1+100), Wolfgang Moersch. Funktioniert ähnlich......



    [www.FotohuisRoVo.nl] "De enige beperking in je fotografie ben jezelf"


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    Tanol..
    geschrieben von: Matthias Schneege (IP gespeichert)
    Datum: 17. November 2005 14:51


    ...kann ich sehr empfehlen, habe 6 Jahre mit PMK gearbeitet und seit einem Jahr auf Tanol umgestellt. Hat die gleichen guten Eigenschaften ist jedoch sehr viel feinkörniger.

    Gruß

    Matthias

    "In der Duka nicht verzagen, lieber Wolfgang Moersch befragen!"


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    Re: Tanol..
    geschrieben von: Fotohuis RoVo (IP gespeichert)
    Datum: 17. November 2005 15:19


    Ja, das kann ich nur bestättigen, sehr gute Suppe !


    [www.FotohuisRoVo.nl] "De enige beperking in je fotografie ben jezelf"
    ----------------------------------------------
    http://phototec.de/phorum/read.php?3,144034

    Best regards,

    Robert

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimgalli
    Peter, I was surprised to see my name in the first post. I got to the discussion late. Out of curiosity which picture was it that you liked? I use both PMK and PcatHD. It'll be fun to see which was used on THAT picture. I'm finding the PMK prints very differently with Platinum than the Pcat does. Much longer printing times to get through the green color.
    Hi Jim,

    It was your "Mason Valley Conttonwoods, late fall" photo that caught my eye.

    Peter

  10. #30
    jimgalli's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thefizz
    Hi Jim,

    It was your "Mason Valley Conttonwoods, late fall" photo that caught my eye.

    Peter
    Ahh. PMK that time. Like I say I use them both. The PMK because it stains more can be problematic. I was getting un-even density along the edges. It nearly drove me nuts and the switch to PyroCat HD (and to be fair, I switched to the JOBO Expert Drums at about the same time) solved the problem forever. PyroCat HD is very easy to make and very inexpensive to use. And it renders gorgeous negs. I'm about 95% PCat and 5% PMK these days. I don't do extensive tests etc. I waste extensive film making pictures, so when I land somewhere, it's strictly "seat-of-the-pants".
    He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep..to gain that which he cannot lose. Jim Elliot, 1949

    http://tonopahpictures.0catch.com

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