Harvey's 777

[c6h6o3]

predictable speed and contrast from 65 to 90 degrees.
.

It's probably just the point where the straight line becomes the toe and the curve changes. And my thermometer could be wrong.

[jnanian]

its too bad they don't sell already depleted developer in a jar along with the chemistry to make the stock solution. it would really help their customer base realize what a great developer 777 is. i wouldn't be surprised if 1/2 of the people who buy it give up on it because their first sheets+rolls are too contrasty and not what they expected to be.

you might decant a bunch of developer and use it over and over to exhaust it a little bit, and mix it back into your stock solution. it might take more time than having a jar of "the good stuff" mailed to you, but it should do the trick.

good luck!
john

[Gerald Koch]

its too bad they don't sell already depleted developer in a jar along with the chemistry to make the stock solution. it would really help their customer base realize what a great developer 777 is. i wouldn't be surprised if 1/2 of the people who buy it give up on it because their first sheets+rolls are too contrasty and not what they expected to be.

Its recommended to develop some scrap film first to "season" a new batch.

[Harry Lime]

Does the seasoning process have to do with the soup becoming silver enriched?
Does a compensating effect occur? (is silver floatsam deposited on the negative
as it is developed?)

Harry Lime

[jnanian]

John,
the "seasoning" effect is due to the accumulation of developer products, and not aerial oxidation. Edmund Lowe gives some alternatives to this method of seasoning, which involve the addition of a small amount of potassium thiocyanate or thiourea to the fresh solution. There is also the question of backing dyes, and their effect on a replenished system. It is generally advised that these be removed in a bath of sodium sulfite before development. The fresh solution might be better suited to expansion development, and reserved for that application until seasoned.

Jay

thanks for the explanaition jay.

not sure scientifically or technically why it helps mellow it out, i know
from printing thousands of sheets if 5x7 xxx in dk50 (back in the day) that it was *essential* to leave about 1/4 - 1/3 a tank of depleted developer in the tank ( sediment and all ) whenever a fresh batch was mixed. if we didn't do this we wouldn't have had the long tonal range negatives we had, and the film would have been way too contrasty ...

from the essay the unblinkingeye, it sounds like 777 is sort of similar.

-john

[df cardwell]

Crawley suggests the reason ripened PPD developers work better is that partly exhausted PPD slightly encourages edge effects.

Lowe, in 1939, was quite clear on the matter, and illustrated it with photographs of the grains: finer grain ( classical fine grain: regular, concise; not clumpy or mushy ) came from seasoned developer. He attributed this to the restraining action of the bromide and accumulated developer oxidation byproducts.

This has been de rigeur for any replenishment line, running Diafine, D23, or Edwal 12. Or, ahem, Xtol. E-6 lines have always used a "starter" for new developer in an un-seasoned line.

[Venchka]

So, how do you guys heat your 777 to 75F?

waterbath?
Aquarium heater?

Anyone?

Harry Lime

Along the Gulf coast. From May to Thanksgiving. Add ice. Lots of ice.

[Fred De Van]

"Shadow dumping"

Maybe this is obvious, but I believe the meaning of "Panthermic" here is that the contrast curve is not affected over a range of temp's when the time of development is adjusted accordingly, as apposed to a developer where the linear adjustment of time breaks down over an extended range of temperature. Not "Panthermic" as in Diafine where temperature does not affect speed or contrast and you develop the film for the same length of time over a wide range of temperatures. So could the problem with the "shadow dumping" be simply underdeveloped due to not correcting for time? Again, not trying to insult anyones intelligence.

Correct! More accurately, UNDER-AGITATION. The person who claimed this fall off at 72F neglected to heed my Unblinkingeye caveat and warning about agitation.

Fred

[Fred De Van]

thanks for the explanaition jay.

not sure scientifically or technically why it helps mellow it out, i know
from printing thousands of sheets if 5x7 xxx in dk50 (back in the day) that it was *essential* to leave about 1/4 - 1/3 a tank of depleted developer in the tank ( sediment and all ) whenever a fresh batch was mixed. if we didn't do this we wouldn't have had the long tonal range negatives we had, and the film would have been way too contrasty ...

from the essay the unblinkingeye, it sounds like 777 is sort of similar.

-john

I also used DK 50 in a fashion similar to yours. 777 is similar but not the same. The 777 is not really depleted, it is byproduct saturated when it needs to be changed. Ugly stuff, but it still works as intended. That is why we used the term "ripened". A level of those byproducts are desirable, to a point.

Your stressing *essential* cannot be stated loudly enough. It is much simpler to tame 777 and only a few sheets or rolls can get it in balance. Today's somewhat compromised t-grain films may not work too well, or produce the intended effect. I don't know since I can't really find any reason to use most of them.

Fred

[Fred De Van]

Any hints about mixing this stuff? It appears that one of the components is quite toxic, so I will use rubber gloves.

How about replenishing? I've only ever used one-shot developers, so any information would be appreciated.

I shoot Tri-X@400 in 135 (and some 120) 90% of the time. Does anyone have any experience with this combination?

Can you push process Tri-X to 800 or 1600 in 777?

Is 777 closer to XTOL or D76? Someone told me it's similar to Pyro...
This may be a difficult question to answer, since the formula is secret, but perhaps someone can speak from experience.

Considering the advances that have been made in the past decades (XTOL etc.), is 777 still worth the effort? I know there is no such thing as a magic bullet in photography, but 777 sure sounds intriguing.

How about development temperature? I read somewhere that it works best at 75F. How about room temperature (68F)?

777 is supposed to be very sensitive to agitation. Anyone care to share?

How about the ripening process? How does this work?

Oxygen in high concentration is toxic, 777 in normal use is not. It will stain, which is to be expected from the formulation.

About there being no MSDS, 777 prcededs those by about 40 years and most of the heavy users of the stuff are still around without ill effect. A few have succombed to the real perils of political assination, falling off mountains, High Fructose corn syrup, an irate spouse or two, and one to an overdose of lunatic postings of utter nonsense on public websites. But hundreds of heavy bare handed 777 users are still with us. Rubber gloves can keep your fingernails from discoloration if you are prone to immersing your hands in deep tanks for a protracted length of time, so do use them.

df cardwell has it right in every respect, his description of how it works is perfect.

777 contains paraphenylenediamine, True, and also true of every C 41/EP 2 type color process, and every mini lab at you local wal*mart. (I think the levels are about the same if not higher in the color developer) The danger with the color chems is that they are shipped as a concentrated liquid and are heavily diluted for use. Not the case with 777.

Published photographs made with this developer look very, very nice and do seem to have a certain glow. But I'm not sure that this couldn't be done with another developer.

One can search for what we don't know or use that which we do know.

And, we do already know that Edwal-12 and some others do produce a similar look.

The formula which Ed published at unblinking eye was at the time admitted to be at best, a guess, and at the time none of use knew what was the fate of BPI nor that they would still be around 7 hours not to mention, 7 years, later. Since it is easily obtainable, stick with the BPI compound. Getting PPD is not only not that easy, in small quantities it can be relatively expensive.

777 does contain Glycin, the use of an alternative naming convention may provide BPI with plausible deny-ability, but what they make contains what we call Glycin. A good thing.

Is 777 closer to XTOL

That question is inverted, both in time and logic.

There are so many remarkable developers easily available each with very special capabilities, I have yet to find a reason for Xtol or even HC-110. Neither are a compelling improvement on ID-11, Rodinal or a host of others. There have been few, very few, advances in film developers over the 1930-1970 halcyon days just marketing opportunities. Not just developers. I find little use for t-grain films either. They contradict the strengths of B&W. Grain can be a creative element. I am equally comfortable with a 6x6 or 4x5 as I am with 35mm. I don't shoot weddings nor use direct on camera flash and burning out big white dresses is of no concern. I purely do not want a B&W film which replicates the response of a color negative film. I rarely use those either. When I do a project in B&W I usually have between 10 and 50 rolls (120 or 35mm) to process at a time. A one shot developer makes no sense in that case. It is either a test session and/or very rare that I have less than 5 rolls of 120 to develop and a big deep tank is easier and better understood than even my Jobo ATL. The JOBO is for E-6.

The biggest selling point for 777 in the old days was to produce the same negative on Monday morning when NY loft buildings were unheated at night and as you did on Thursday when the developer may be 15F warmer. 777 works just fine at 65F as it does at 85F and it will produce identical results. You just cannot be at all timid about agitation regardless the temperture.

777 is not the best choice for more than a mild push of film speed. It can be done, that's for sure, but there are more specialized developers better suited for that use. It works great if you wish to pull the speed or intentionally overexpose and develop normally. The highlights resist blocking up.

Why store the replenisher in a tank instead of a bottle? Keep the air to a minimum, it lasts a very long time and you use very little.

Give it a try with or without the rubber gloves.

Fred