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  1. #11
    Leon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Miller

    Leon raises the question of cost, but since so little Prescysol is needed, and the shelf life is so good I donít consider this a factor considering all the other costs involved just to get a developed film into the tank. Maybe some one would like to do the sums, and post a price comparison.
    Dave - I mix p-cat to 100ml of each solution to be used at 1:1:100. If I remember rightly, PH's Precyscol is supplied as 100ml bottle of a, and 500 ml of b to be used at 1:5:100 so it would give the same capacity as the p-cat. 100ml of P-cat A and B costs me £1.05 -

    Precyscol (or EF version) is £15.99 with shipping. for the same capacity ...

    Assuming I'm putting 2 rolls of 120 film onto one reel giving roughly 33 films worth of developer, pyrocat = 3 pence per film, Precyscol = 49 pence per film

    As I said earlier, in my unscientific testings, pyrocat HD and precyscol give pretty much the same results.

  2. #12
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    I realize I'm sounding dense here but I had tried Prescysol (and liking it) when Peter first was promoting it and some time later had my first PyroCat experiences. This thread had me looking back at my Prescysol negatives and I realize now that the two are very similar in behaviors. I had abandoned Prescysol at the time, simply because of trouble shipping liquids in the dead of winter in my northern climate and recurring problems in this regard. The EF variant sounds very interesting and I would be interested to hear of others' results with it.
    Craig Schroeder

  3. #13
    Dave Miller's Avatar
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    Although it’s valid for you to do so, I’m not sure that it is fair to compare a home brewed product with a commercial preparation in the context of this discussion. To make the argument relevant, I think your calculations should be based on the commercial form of your favoured developer. Prescysol EF dilutes to make sufficient for 40 rolls of 120, assuming no waste. This translates into 10 lt of developer, compare this to the price of, say CM Pyro that costs £11.50 for 5 lt and the numbers start to drop into place. Having said that when the total cost of a developed film is analysed, then the developer cost, whether 3p, or 40p is insignificant. Then again I suppose it would get me another half cup of coffee during a shooting break.

    I cannot say if Prescysol is the best developer available, all I can say is that it is the best that I have found; and I’m happy enough with the results not to be in any hurry to find another.

    Craig, I’m not sure why you think you are sounding dense when making a worthwhile contribution to the thread. Given the exceptional shelf life of these products, could you not consider stocking up during the summer.
    Regards Dave.

    An English Eye


  4. #14
    craigclu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Miller
    Craig, Iím not sure why you think you are sounding dense when making a worthwhile contribution to the thread. Given the exceptional shelf life of these products, could you not consider stocking up during the summer.
    I'm accustomed to working around that but the timing happened to work in such a way that I went off in other directions, both from weather timing and the fact that I was having an interesting time getting back into homebrew projects. I'll step to the head of the line in promoting that people give Prescysol a try as I have little doubt that it would readily become a good tool to have on the shelf and likely a "go-to" reliable performer that can be trusted to deliver. I'm so deep into a dizzying array of homebrew concoctions and variations of others' formulas that I am busily getting stabilized again! I do very controlled experimenting in my daily career work and I'm afraid I've let my variables get carelessly/loosely away from me at home in the retreat of my darkroom. I have everything somewhat tuned and have learned very much but I'm struggling to get shadow detail and still hold onto the good things that I've got going for me. I'll likely end up retreating to my stand-by developers (likely including Prescysol), PyroCat types and DS-10 which has become my favorite for Delta series films.
    Craig Schroeder

  5. #15

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    Dave,

    I am not sure why you find the comparison unfair. The Pyrocat-HD formula is available and you are free to mix it yourself, or buy the commerciallly prepared formula from various sources. Presysol is a proprietary formula so you are tied to the cost of the commercial product.

    Based on everything that has been said it seems likely that Presysol is very similar to Pyrocat-HD, and probably derived from it. It may, in fact, be the same formula, except for the substition of the Stock B 75% potassium carbonate solution with a 15%-20% sodium carbonate solution, which is of course an alternative method of mixing Pyrocat-HD which I have previously recommended. I obviously don't know exactly what is in Presysol, but when two formulas give results that are almost identical, I think it is reasonable to assume that they are highly similar, if not identical, in composition.

    BTW, I would be willing to trade someone an equal amount of Pyrocat-HD for Presysol in order to do sensitometry comparison tests of the two developers.

    Sandy


    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Miller
    Although itís valid for you to do so, Iím not sure that it is fair to compare a home brewed product with a commercial preparation in the context of this discussion. To make the argument relevant, I think your calculations should be based on the commercial form of your favoured developer. Prescysol EF dilutes to make sufficient for 40 rolls of 120, assuming no waste. This translates into 10 lt of developer, compare this to the price of, say CM Pyro that costs £11.50 for 5 lt and the numbers start to drop into place. Having said that when the total cost of a developed film is analysed, then the developer cost, whether 3p, or 40p is insignificant. Then again I suppose it would get me another half cup of coffee during a shooting break.

    I cannot say if Prescysol is the best developer available, all I can say is that it is the best that I have found; and Iím happy enough with the results not to be in any hurry to find another.

    Craig, Iím not sure why you think you are sounding dense when making a worthwhile contribution to the thread. Given the exceptional shelf life of these products, could you not consider stocking up during the summer.
    Last edited by sanking; 01-21-2006 at 02:45 PM. Click to view previous post history.

  6. #16
    Dave Miller's Avatar
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    Sandy,
    I explained why I thought it unfair, I was trying to compare like with like. In this case two commercial products, since there are others, who, like me, use too little film developer to make it variable to consider mixing our own. Those that do would naturally follow Leon’s costing.
    Regards Dave.

    An English Eye


  7. #17

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    Jay,

    I have not yet found a source for the thin glass on the Wejex. Have been out of the country for a while so this has been put on hold. If I find a replacement I will send you the information. If you come up with it first, please do the same.

    Agreed, removing the glass was one bitch of a job.

    Sandy


    Quote Originally Posted by jdef
    Don,

    I love that photo!

    The application of the ZS, or BTZS for rollfilm users is of particular interest and renewed relevance for me, as I've recently turned my affections to 35mm work. My developer of choice is also a staining developer, although of a different breed than the ones mentioned in this thread. As Mr. Cardwell so succinctly puts it, much of the exposure/development demands of the ZS, or BTZS are met by the use of VC papers, and it is only the extreme conditions of lighting that require deviation from "normal" exposure and development. Compared to shooting MF or LF, carying a few 35mm camera bodies doesn't seem like an inconvenience.

    Sandy,

    where did you find replacement glass for your Wejex? That glass was a bitch to remove.

    Jay

  8. #18
    Leon's Avatar
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    sorry Dave - I thought that was what you were asking for when you mentioned a price comparison .... I wasnt trying to "sell" you the whole home-brew ethos, no offence meant

    The difference between 3 and 50 pence may be only a cheap cup of coffee, but the difference between £1 and £16 is a night down the pub for me so that's 4 extra beer sessions a year by my film usage - not to be sniffed at - or several slices of that cheesecake you and Frank talk about.

    I stopped using Presyscol because the B solution kept solidifying and I had to heat it for long periods to disolve it all each time I used it. My darkroom gets quite cold when not in use in the winter and I think that is what caused it.

  9. #19
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    Leon, you have nearly won me over to the idea of homebrew! When my batch of Prescysol is finished I will give it a go. I have looked at Silverprint for chemical prices but didn't manage to get to the 3p a shot figure. Where do you buy your raw materials?
    http://www.marktweedie.co.uk

  10. #20
    Dave Miller's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marktweedie
    Leon, you have nearly won me over to the idea of homebrew! When my batch of Prescysol is finished I will give it a go. I have looked at Silverprint for chemical prices but didn't manage to get to the 3p a shot figure. Where do you buy your raw materials?
    Check out
    Retrophotographic
    as well.
    Regards Dave.

    An English Eye


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