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  1. #1

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    Processing 34 Year old Verichrome Pan 126 in HC110B...

    As the title states, I just processed a roll of 126 Verichrome Pan B&W film from a Family Reunion in Sulphur, Oklahoma at Chickasaw National Park in 1972... and it came out. Amazing.

    Not the best images in the world, flat and thin (dmax no more than 0.90d anywhere), but I can recognize relatives long since dead and buried and with an ultra-hard paper, should print well enough to satisfy my family.

    Oh, and I think there is a photo of me in there; I am 45 now; I was 11 back then...

    I used Kodak HC110 Dilution B (as mentioned in this other APUG thread ) at 7 minutes 70 degrees F with 20 ml of a 10% Potassium Bromide solution added to the developer in a Patterson 3 reel tank.

    I decided to work with a 10% solution of PB instead of using so many granules of PB per reel just because I was more comfortable in the measurements this way. There certainly is fog in the negatives, but I'm thinking the PB probably helped cut that down a bit, but that is just a guess.

    I also processed 2 rolls of TMax 100 35mm at the same time (900 ml total chemistry), and they looked a bit thin, so the bromide probably held back the speed a bit.

    Scans tomorrow.

    Frank W.

  2. #2
    Michel Hardy-Vallée's Avatar
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    Pretty cool! I have developed a roll of 1965-expiring VP 620 in HC110b, and that was a bit too much to ask to the venerable. The result was pleasing, however, just very foggy and not very dense. I managed to get a print out of it, it's in my perso gallery.
    Using film since before it was hip.


    "One of the most singular characters of the hyposulphites, is the property their solutions possess of dissolving muriate of silver and retaining it in considerable quantity in permanent solution" — Sir John Frederick William Herschel, "On the Hyposulphurous Acid and its Compounds." The Edinburgh Philosophical Journal, Vol. 1 (8 Jan. 1819): 8-29. p. 11

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  3. #3

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    And, here we go...

    Fog is high but uniform.

    Looks like I could possibly go a bit longer in the soup; opinions?

    Frank
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails oldphoto.png  

  4. #4
    jimgalli's Avatar
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    Ummm. Hello! Is there a lesson here?? Fast forward 34 years from now and you find your cousin's digi cam in the attic........

    I know, preaching to the choir but......how cool that we used to make a hard copy. Silver on film.+
    He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep..to gain that which he cannot lose. Jim Elliot, 1949

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  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by mhv
    Pretty cool! I have developed a roll of 1965-expiring VP 620 in HC110b, and that was a bit too much to ask to the venerable. The result was pleasing, however, just very foggy and not very dense. I managed to get a print out of it, it's in my perso gallery.
    Hey MHV,

    That's a great shot for 1965 vintage film! I like it!

    Looks like you got much better dmax than I did, but maybe that's the difference between a recent latent image and a 34 year old latent image, eh?

    Frank

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by jimgalli
    Ummm. Hello! Is there a lesson here?? Fast forward 34 years from now and you find your cousin's digi cam in the attic........

    I know, preaching to the choir but......how cool that we used to make a hard copy. Silver on film.+
    Amen brother!

    Like I have always heard, Silver is better than rust...

    Frank

  7. #7
    Michel Hardy-Vallée's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kino
    Hey MHV,

    That's a great shot for 1965 vintage film! I like it!

    Looks like you got much better dmax than I did, but maybe that's the difference between a recent latent image and a 34 year old latent image, eh?

    Frank
    Thanks Kino! The Brownie has become my new point and shoot, and with flashbulbs I don't even have to think about exposure anymore.

    I think using old objects in the picture also helps to preserve the qualities of the expired film. That way, the emulsion does not suffer from what the experts call "future shock" in which an emulsion screams in horror and hides under the bed at the sight of our modern world.
    Using film since before it was hip.


    "One of the most singular characters of the hyposulphites, is the property their solutions possess of dissolving muriate of silver and retaining it in considerable quantity in permanent solution" — Sir John Frederick William Herschel, "On the Hyposulphurous Acid and its Compounds." The Edinburgh Philosophical Journal, Vol. 1 (8 Jan. 1819): 8-29. p. 11

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  8. #8

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    Refinements and an odd problem

    OK, I just hung 5 more rolls of 126 to dry from my cache of 1970's era family film.

    Three were Verichrome Pan and two were Kodacolor II, a C-22 process.

    The Verichrome I processed on Patterson Reels in a 3 reel tank in HC110, dilution "b" for 8, thats eight, minutes @ 69-70 degrees. For each roll, I added 10 ml of a 20% solution of sodium bromide as a fog restrainer. The results are much better; looks like I got a gain in dmax of about .30 to .50d per roll and no appreciable increase in fogging that I could see on the wet negatives -- dry-down might change that opinion...

    As for the two Kodacolor II reels, they were pretty much a disaster. There is some form of silver image on the film, but it is almost opaque and will take an arc light on time exposure to print. Looks like the orange mask has turned a very dark brown.

    Of course, this film is C-22 process NOT C-41, so I am guessing that I did a bonehead maneuver.

    Anyone have any clues on how to possibly leach out the orange mask and recover the silver images?

    Frank

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kino
    ....

    As for the two Kodacolor II reels, they were pretty much a disaster. There is some form of silver image on the film, but it is almost opaque and will take an arc light on time exposure to print. Looks like the orange mask has turned a very dark brown.

    Of course, this film is C-22 process NOT C-41, so I am guessing that I did a bonehead maneuver.

    Anyone have any clues on how to possibly leach out the orange mask and recover the silver images?

    Frank
    A few weeks back I developed a roll of Kodacolor II in Rodinal 1+25 at 26C, I don't recall the time just now. At any rate my roll is C-41 process - it is printed on the yellow backing paper. The roll came in an old Ventura Deluxe that I got in January. Two frames had been exposed many years ago, and the camera had been opened while on frame three. I shot the rest of the roll at various ASA's to see if any image would come out. There is of course the strong orange colour cast, which makes printing difficult, but the first two images are printable (1-2minute exposure times) and it is hard to adjust contrast. On the other hand, some of the freshly exposed frames have much less colour cast within the frame (still lots in the unexposed film surrounding the frame) and are easily printable and give very respectable prints.

    I also had a friend with a good scanner and lots of Photoshop skill scan the negatives. He came up with two useable prints. I don't have a scanner, but if I get scans I will post them.

    Two things then:

    -Was Kodcolor II ever C-22?
    -I think the bleach to remove the orange will remove the silver image (but you probably already know that)

    I have developed fresh C-41 as B&W (as have many others) with very printable images.

    Don't despair too quickly, you may get a print from those negatives with long exposures.

    Now to develop my old 16mm vnf film, any ideas?

    Cheers,
    Clarence

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by CRhymer
    A few weeks back I developed a roll of Kodacolor II in Rodinal 1+25 at 26C, I don't recall the time just now. At any rate my roll is C-41 process - it is printed on the yellow backing paper. The roll came in an old Ventura Deluxe that I got in January. Two frames had been exposed many years ago, and the camera had been opened while on frame three. I shot the rest of the roll at various ASA's to see if any image would come out. There is of course the strong orange colour cast, which makes printing difficult, but the first two images are printable (1-2minute exposure times) and it is hard to adjust contrast. On the other hand, some of the freshly exposed frames have much less colour cast within the frame (still lots in the unexposed film surrounding the frame) and are easily printable and give very respectable prints.

    I also had a friend with a good scanner and lots of Photoshop skill scan the negatives. He came up with two useable prints. I don't have a scanner, but if I get scans I will post them.

    Two things then:

    -Was Kodcolor II ever C-22?
    -I think the bleach to remove the orange will remove the silver image (but you probably already know that)

    I have developed fresh C-41 as B&W (as have many others) with very printable images.

    Don't despair too quickly, you may get a print from those negatives with long exposures.

    Now to develop my old 16mm vnf film, any ideas?

    Cheers,
    Clarence
    Clarence,

    Thanks for the information.

    Unless I mixed up the film type in my head, I am pretty sure the Kodacolor II 126 carts are marked "process C-22"; I will hit the darkroom tonight and grab the cartridge shells out of the trash to see.

    Come to think of it, it might be Kodacolor X instead; it was midnight after a long day at work when I did this and I don't have my notes before me.

    Must check the lab notebook and get back to you.

    Again, I think our varying experience probably has to do with latent images that are 34 years old VS latent images that are a few days old on 30 year old stock. Seems to make quite a difference, and, why not?

    Wonder if the sodium bromide reacted with the orange dye in some form or fashion?

    Strangely enough, I gave the film a 4 minute water prebath before processing and little to no color came out of the tank when I dumped it. I thought that was odd...

    As for your VNF, what stock do you have?

    I still have a freezer chocked full of 7240 VNF 100' daylight loads!

    Frank

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