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  1. #21

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    I'll second the warning about the static sparks when you pull off the tape. I find pulling it off very slowly prevents it happening. I mostly use 220, where there are separate backing papers at the start and end of the film and so two tapes: but the principle is the same.

    David.

  2. #22
    Lachlan Young's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ilona
    Wow! Thank you all for your answers! I can't wait giving it a try after all that I read here!
    I already shot a roll of film with a newly-made pinhole camera. I gathered all my darkroom stuff so far and I noticed that I'm still missing bits and pieces (such as a thermometer).

    I also had a look at Ilfords web site (great link btw!). In the article "Processing your first B&W film" and in the film fact sheet (HP5+ 400), they are mentioning some dilution figures when it comes to the developer, something like "stock", "1+1", "1+3", etc. I have no clue what that is. I have a Kodak powder developer that I first should mix. Is the dilution I will obtain then "stock"?

    Also, I'm wondering if I have to maintain the tank at the right temperature (and then how I can do that). Or can I just process at room temperature and adjust the processing time accordingly? The latter sounds easier to me but I don't know what the impact would be on the whole process.

    Ilona
    Depends what the developer is. If it is D76/ID11 then mix up the supplied dry chemicals to make a 'stock' solution. You can reuse stock solutions with replenishment but this is not recommended with ID11. You are best to dilute it 1+1 with water. If you are using a 2x35mm/1x120 reel paterson tank then you will need 10 fl oz of stock solution diluted with 10fl oz of water. After developing the film for the recommended time pour it out and pour in the stop bath etc. Once you have finished dispose of the working solution you have just used - this is one shot development. 1+3 dilutions are used for greater compensating action but with ID11 you can only process one roll at a time in a two reel tank as there is not enough to process both reels. You should keep the remaining stock soultion for use when you need it. Following the Ilford instrctions is probably a very good idea. THIS book should be really helpful in getting you on your way.

    Hope this helps,

    Lachlan

  3. #23

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    Your concept of 'stock' is correct. When you mix the pkt of dry chems, as specified on the label, you then have a 'stock' solution. You may use it as is, or dilute further. 1+1 or 1:1 means 1 part stock and 1 part water. 1:2 would be 1 part stock, 2 parts water.

    There are temperture charts that let you work out what the development time would be for a different temp from your normal one. Probably on the Ilford site. If your room temp is roughly the development temp, I doubt you need to adjust for it as the temp of your developer won't creep much. I personally measure the developer temp after my last inversion sequence and if it's climbed more than 1/2 degree I'll tip the developer straight away (cutting maybe 30secs from the total time). If it's dropped (very rare!) I might give it an extra 30secs. How I decide all this is alchemy!

    You can process different films in the same developer, however you need to worry about two things. The amount of actual developer in the solution to begin with is sufficient too develop the films you want too, and more importantly, the time between developing. Once diluted to 'working strength', most developers have a fairly limited lifespan, and I don't think anyone would advise you to use it a day or more later. Yes it might work, but if it doesn't... your negs will be toast, and what's the cost of some fresh developer compared to the value of your pictures! Most peropl who replenish developer, know what their doing... the rest of us use it "one shot"! (use once, and dispose)

    B&W is very forgiving, but it's best you get into good habits straight away! Be orderly (label jugs, etc) Concentrate on the task... don't try to do other things as the same time.

  4. #24
    gnashings's Avatar
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    Ilona,

    The powder you have will yield the "stock" solution. All the 1+1, 1+3, etc. refer to further diluting that "stock" with water. Different dilutions give different "looks" to the finished product - its not simply a case of less diluted=less developing time (although this is usually true as well, obviously). Stock sloution keeps a lot longer - generally, once you mix a developer further with water, it is only good for that one use and should then be discarded.
    Be sure to use very warm water to mix your chemicals as per the instructions on the bag - if you don't, you will have issues with properly dissolving all the chems. Of course, follow the instructions exactly to get the right volume when finished. Of course, be careful when you do this - make sure you don't get a face full of powdered chems. This is unpleasant enough when you mix powdered drinks...
    Which leads me to the temperature question. Yes, the temperature most of these times are given at is 20deg C, or 68 F (are you metric? I am, so I'll keep going with metric if you don't mind). You are correct in assuming that you can adjust development times accordingly, and there are charts available at most manufacturers web sites to show you by how much to adjust for each degree over the baseline 20C.
    From my experience, I reccomend that you try to get all your chems down(or up) to that temperature as best as you can. This is not that complicated - I use a Walmart thermometer and it seems to do a fine job - if you want to spring for a nice photo thermometer, even better.
    If you want to ensure that the temperatures stay constant, use a water bath - place all your containers in water of a known temperature (in your sink, or a basin of some sort). However, I find that unless your house is really hot or really cold, in the amount of time needed to process one roll of film the temperature changes are not very significant to B&W processing, especially seeing as the developer temperature is most important, and that is your first step, so it will be ok if you just make sure you start out at the right temp. The biggest thing to worry about with the other two steps (stop bath and fixer) is not so much the actual temperature (as long as its nothing ridiculous - try to get it the same as the dev to start with) as the temperature difference between the different stages. In other words, your dev, stop and fix should be very close in temperature or you may have unwanted ill effets on your film's emulsion. This, again, is simpler than it sounds - just set up your starting temperature for all three to be the same, and you will be ok when you get to the end with the amount of time one roll takes. Just be sure that your wash is also close in temp.
    I find the biggest pain to be working with stock solutions (like D76 or Acufine) - with Rodinal (which you mix at 1+25 or more), I just run the tap over the thermometer until I get it right, mix all my chems to the amounts I will use, check once more just in case the water temp changed on me, and off I go. With a stock solution, you may have to place it in a water bath of desired temp to bring it to the right temp.
    Just in case you need it - here is an example of a temp/time chart for Ilfords FP4+ (top of page 4). From what I have seen, its remarkably similar for other films.
    I am relatively green at this compared to most folks on this site - but feel free to PM me with any questions you may have. If I don't know, I'll at least usually know where to look or whom to ask! Have fun and best of luck,

    Peter.

    OK - many, many people beat me to it while I was typing my novel
    and one more thing - I just noticed you mentioned you will be using HP5+... not FP4+... I did read your post, I just had a brain fart
    Last edited by gnashings; 05-12-2006 at 04:20 AM. Click to view previous post history. Reason: because I am long-winded...

  5. #25

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    I'll add one more thing I do when developing film.

    I temper a bucket of water (to 20C) and from that I mix my developer (this might also require a little hotter water or maybe some from the fridge depending on what developer I'm using). I then use the water from the bucket to do my rinses ("stop" is 2 rinses and after fix) This way I always have enough 'correct' temp water handy and I think I have less chance of accidently adding some real hot stuff!

  6. #26
    ilona's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gnashings
    The powder you have will yield the "stock" solution. All the 1+1, 1+3, etc. refer to further diluting that "stock" with water. Different dilutions give different "looks" to the finished product - its not simply a case of less diluted=less developing time (although this is usually true as well, obviously).
    What difference in "look" will dilution give?
    Could be developer-dependent though... I think I have Kodak D76 (can't check right now).

    PS: metric is fine
    Ilona

  7. #27
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    Dilute development is really good for very contrasty subjects and also gives better acutance (sharpness). You may find some increase in grain with D76/ID11 especially at 1:3
    Norman is an island.Time and tide wait for Norman.

  8. #28
    Ed Sukach's Avatar
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    We are revisiting the "static spark while removing the tape" thing again? Ole has described the tiny "row of light" seen as this happens - it is not static electricity - but had something to do with "bubble" (?) phenomenom... therefore was not affected by the lack of humidity.

    I know not what others may conclude.... but...

    I have processed a few (hundred ? - who is counting?) rolls of 120, removing the tape from the film - or attempting to - every time. Fast removal - slow - and have noticed that minute amount of light, with eyes conditioned to the lack of light, frequently. I have NEVER noticed ANY fogging as a result - I would say that there is not enough light energy produced to affect the film.

    Your mileage may vary. As for me - that is simply one more item added to my collection of "Old Wives' Tales and Myths of Photography".
    Carpe erratum!!

    Ed Sukach, FFP.

  9. #29
    gnashings's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ilona
    What difference in "look" will dilution give?
    Could be developer-dependent though... I think I have Kodak D76 (can't check right now).

    PS: metric is fine

    Exactly what Blighty said inthe case of D76 and most others. Keep in mind that other developers may react differently - the best thing to do is to use what I call "educated experiments". What I mean by that is look up as much about the give developer as you can (APUG is a great place to look), and you will get an idea of what to expect - from there, you will have to see if the differences are to your liking and/or worth the effort. This is a very subjective hobby - what some people consider grbage, others see as treasure and everything in between.
    I only use D76 at 1+1 (the very few times that I do use it), having tried stock and more dilute solutions, I like this one the best - it gives me the best combination of grain and sharpness. Of course, I like grain - so again, try for yourself.

    Did you develop that roll yet?

    Peter.

  10. #30
    ilona's Avatar
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    Hi!

    No, the roll is not developed yet. But it's in the tank by now, finally!

    Since I don't have a proper darkroom, I had to wait until it was dark, switch all the light off and use the bathroom as darkroom. In other words, I was forced to begin quite late. Then it took me a while to actually put the film on the reel. Now it is, but I don't really know in which state!... I really have to practice more in the light because I think I put my fingers about everywhere on the film (it was so curly and it would suddenly go backwards and fall from the reel...). Next time better! So, it ended-up quite late yesterday and I gave up on the development.

    During the afternoon I mixed the developer though (D76). The most difficult part was finding a thermometer that would go above 50 degrees C as my local photographic shops didn't have that (only up to 50 and they didn't have a changing bag either). I resorted to use a dismounted garden thermometer that would go just above 60 degrees C. Probably not very accurate but the water had to be somewhere between 50 and 55 degrees C so that was OK I guess. For the rest of the process I can use a "normal" photographic thermometer.

    This evening I'm going to develop. I'm so curious to see the results!
    Ilona

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