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  1. #11
    david b's Avatar
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    The pdf I downloaded from the Ilford site says a two bath fix can be used in one of two ways:

    both baths at 1+4 for a 60 seconds each
    or
    both baths at 1+9 for 90 seconds each

    I've always done a two bath fix on my "keepers" so I think I will continue with that. Also the fix is now called "Ilford Rapid Fix".

  2. #12
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    It seems to me that the process of removing Thiosulphate is by leaching. Other than the chemical process of hypoclear - that uses sodium sulphite to chemically bond with the fixer and neutralize it, there is really no way to speed up this process without using heat. I don't think heat is good for the fibers or the emulsion. I use a fixer that is based on Ammonium Thiosulphate with PH of 8.0 (when fresh). I always wash-soak my prints for one hour with at least 2 changes during that hour. I know that that long undisturbed soak will make my prints archival. I do not use hypoclear - seems like a waste of good sulphite.
    My photos are always without all that distracting color ...

  3. #13

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    As a chemical manufacturer for 50 years, I 'm going to say the only difference in rapid fixer formulas for film or paper is the label on the bottle.

  4. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by lowellh
    As a chemical manufacturer for 50 years, I 'm going to say the only difference in rapid fixer formulas for film or paper is the label on the bottle.
    Be fair. The only significant difference.

    Cheers,

    Eli Mousetrouser

  5. #15

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    [QUOTES=fhovie]
    "I know that that long undisturbed soak
    will make my prints archival."

    I certainly expect so. The Still Water Diffusion Wash
    I use tests clear with 3 transfers. The method uses a
    minute amount of water. I precede the long soaks with
    a 2, 3, 2, minute rinse, hca, rinse. Tray bottom, twixt
    each print, and on top of stack I place extremely
    permeable hydrophobic separator sheets.

    "I do not use hypoclear - seems like a waste of good sulphite."

    How contrary! Three quotes: Martin Reed, his Article
    Mysteries of the Vortex. "The importance of hypo-clearing
    agent as a wash aid cannot be overstressed." "The benefits
    of the use of ... are so dramatic in terms of time and water
    saved ..." "The importance of this step cannot be
    overstressed..." He's sold, I'm sold. Dan

  6. #16

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    David

    I think the 20 min reference identified is if you fix with a hardened fix. If you use Ilford's Optimum Permanence Sequence without toning it isn't optimum. Prints need to be toned to be archival. If you follow their recommendations for toning you waste toner as HCA has a working shelf life of 7 days after it is mixed.

    This may not work for you but I fix fiber prints for 1 min in a one bath TF-4 solution. I shorten the fix capacity to 10 to 12 (8x10) in prints. That keeps the fix bath fresh without buildup of nasty by-products. Prints are held in a hold bath during the 2 hr session with 4 or 5 water exchanges. At the end of the darkroom session prints are toned and placed in a HCA bath for 10 min. The final tray wash is 20 to 30 min based on paper weight.

    Only testing can identify if any method is right for our circumstances. My method is conservative and may waste fix but avoids the Ilford recommended 5 min wash that David Vestal of Photo Techniques once wrote was optimistic.
    Last edited by Richard Jepsen; 01-14-2007 at 12:01 PM. Click to view previous post history.
    RJ

  7. #17

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    The publication, Photo Techniques, Special Issue #11, advises use of a pre-rinse prior to HCA treatment and/or washing and that fix will leach out of paper using a very small amount of water. HCA mitigates the problems caused by using cold water.

    I understand use of an alkaline HCA is to expand the emulsion to help remove soluble thiosulphate complexes. The Photo Techniques article advises tap water was more effective than deionized water for washing, however water hardness varies geographically so testing with HT-2 is the only way to know.
    RJ

  8. #18
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    I thought you had to wash Ilford fiber for 60 minutes. Can I get away with 20 minutes using no wash aid and Ilford Rapid Fixer? Did I hijack this thread?

  9. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Jepsen View Post
    David

    ...I fix fiber prints for 1 min in a one bath TF-4 solution.
    I shorten the fix capacity to 10 to 12 (8x10) in prints.
    How about some details. What is the volume of that
    one bath fix? What is the dilution? And, BTW, what is
    the stated capacity of that rapid alkaline fix? Dan

  10. #20

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    Chris, Ilford's 60 min fix time recommendation is when using a traditional fix routine w/o HCA vs their 1 min fix routine.

    Dancqu, TF-4 capacity is 30 fiber prints per 1L. The mix ratio is 1:3. TF-4 does not require a stop or HCA bath for film or prints. I reduce the TF-4 capacity based on Ilford's Rapid Fix tech data archival recommendations. The reference is the paragraph, Silver Concentration, page 4. They advise to achieve max print stability reduce Rapid Fix capacity to 10 fiber prints per 1L which reduces silver build-up to 0.5g/L.

    My process developed as I lack space to have a long tray line and don't process many prints. I am confident ,without testing, that my process is archival.

    TF-4 is a different product than Ilford's Fix but Ilford's logic applies to any fix as it's primary role is to remove silver.
    RJ

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