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  1. #11
    Ken Nadvornick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerald Koch View Post
    Isn't this a classic example of cutting off one's nose to spite one's face.
    No. The OP stated that while he respected Kodak's freedom to decide which direction they wanted to take their business, he similarly reserved his right to do the same with his business. Seemed pretty reasonable to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gerald Koch View Post
    If everyone stops buying Kodak then this will guarantee that Kodak will stop manufacturing photographic products period.
    This is undoubtedly true, but a little disingenuous. A loyalty decision by me in favor of Kodak will not keep Kodak from continuing to cease the manufacture of products I wish to purchase from them. It will similarly not impact in any way their decision to steer their company away from the business direction that my continued loyalty to them would be based upon.

    I have also stopped using Kodak products. Not because I wanted to, but rather because they forced my hand. I had always thought my personal "tipping point" would be the discontinuation of Kodachrome. Instead, like the OP, it also turned out to be the discontinuation of B&W photo paper. Why? In my case, because Kodak had just posted on their website that statement declaring their "ongoing commitment to black-and-white photography," or something to that effect. What happened next? The electrons weren't even dry in the ether before that commitment was broken.

    If I catch someone lying to me about something, in the future that person will cease to have any credibility with me. I don't get angry with him. Nor would I go about cutting off my - or anyone else's - noses over it. I simply stop believing what he says and quietly find someone else with whom to converse. Seems pretty reasonable to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gerald Koch View Post
    BTW, you have been partially successful, Kodak has ceased manufacturing their own chemicals and leased the operation to another company.
    No. Again in my case, the facts are that despite my continued loyalty in the purchasing of my B&W supplies from Kodak, they chose to ignore that loyalty and discontinue all of their B&W photo papers, followed shortly after by the leasing out of their chemistry operation to another company...

    (Do you see the real problem here?)

    Ken

  2. #12
    david b's Avatar
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    I switched from Kodak products because I got the impression that they could shut down ALL of their b&w product lines at any moment.

    OTOH, Ilford has made me feel "secure", in that they have made the commitment to the b&w world and they will be around for a long time.

    I read that Kodak will be introducing organic screen flat panel TV's right around christmas time. Yippee!!!

  3. #13

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    With Phenidone/Hydroquinone chemistry (like HC-110 and Ilfotec) it's easy to mix your own. The same is true for Phenidone/Ascorbate chemistry.
    Tom Hoskinson
    ______________________________

    Everything is analog - even digital :D

  4. #14
    raucousimages's Avatar
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    By this line of thinking if Chrysler stops making Jeeps I better stop buying Dodge trucks.

    Kodak stoped making B&W paper because no one was buying it. It was bad paper and most of us knew it. So what sense is there in trying to punish them for stoping production of a product that was loosing money by not purchasing their fine line of chemicals?
    DIGITAL IS FOR THOSE AFRAID OF THE DARK.

  5. #15
    Zathras's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by raucousimages View Post
    By this line of thinking if Chrysler stops making Jeeps I better stop buying Dodge trucks.
    Real Jeeps were made by Willys between 1940 and 1945


    Quote Originally Posted by raucousimages View Post
    Kodak stoped making B&W paper because no one was buying it. It was bad paper and most of us knew it. So what sense is there in trying to punish them for stoping production of a product that was loosing money by not purchasing their fine line of chemicals?
    I generally agree that Kodak didn't have the greatest papers, IMHO, but I think that Polymax Fine Art was a sweet paper, and Polyprint was a decent RC paper that did not have a developer incoporated emulsion. I wish those two papers were still available, but I still have a small stash of Polymax left in 8x10 and 11x14. And I really wish that Brovira was still being made.

    As long as Tri-X remains available, I will happily feed it to my cameras, and I will continue to buy those Kodak chemicals that I normally use, including HC-110. Might as well enjoy them while they're still here.

    Mike Sullivan
    When the chips are down,

    The buffalo is empty!!!



  6. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by david b View Post
    Ilford has made me feel "secure", in that they have made the commitment to the b&w world and they will be around for a long time.
    Really, I hate to mention this, but Ilford has already gone out of business once and been revived. So are they really more dependable than Kodak?

  7. #17
    david b's Avatar
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    Yes they are more dependable then Kodak.

    They've introduced two NEW paper developers. They brought back Perceptol and post card paper.

    I am sure I am missing a few other things.

    What has Kodak done for this community in the last 5 years?

  8. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by david b View Post
    What has Kodak done for this community in the last 5 years?
    They have brought out improved versions of their B&W films manufactured in a new emulsion coating facility.

  9. #19

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    Dear Gerald,

    You are quite correct to mention that we went out of business in August 2004
    we went out of business because we too were trying to transition to being a digital business, and one of the key reasons we failed was that we forgot about our true monochrome customer base, and did not listen to our customers and end users.

    I am 100% convinced we will not make that mistake again, the new business is a truly new business, HARMAN technology Limited, we are a lot smaller, we have no shareholders except the 6 owners, none of whom were on the board of the old company ( but were senior managers within it ) all of whom work 100% of the time in the new business, yes we have challenges for the future, all photo companies do, but we are profitable and have benefitted from the sad demise of AGFA Photo and KODAK exiting the mono paper business.

    But we are committed to monochrome 100% as are our 395 employees, yes we will diversify our business, but monochrome, is, and will remain our first love.

    And if I am honest I guess a lot of people feel the same who work for KODAK or KENTMERE or FOMA or FORTE or BERGGER and half a hundred others in companies related to analog monochrome photography.

    Simon : ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology Limited

  10. #20
    david b's Avatar
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    thank you Simon !

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