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  1. #11
    desertrat's Avatar
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    Hello Jay,

    I didn't know UST existed until recently. I did some googling to see if there were some other sites where your photography was posted, because I particularly like what you've been able to do with older Russian cameras, which are not generally held in very high esteem over here. I enjoy using them. I used to visit the Russiancamera forum at Beststuff.com, and I vaguely remembered a post you made that referenced teaching. I'm just a hobbyist, but there are educators here at APUG, and if they knew you were an educator also, I think they would like to know that. Would you tell us what you teach at UST?

    "What about using grain alcohol, such as Everclear, rather than methanol?
    Also, what effect on the final product, if any, would this method bring about?

    Cheers,
    Eli"

    Hello Eli,

    Everclear isn't avaliable in California. We can buy denatured alcohol, which is mostly ethanol with a little methanol and a few assorted ketones thrown in for good measure. This would probably work fine. I used methanol because I can get it dirt cheap in the form of Heet brand fuel additive for automobiles. It is nearly anhydrous methanol with one percent additives to prevent corrosion in fuel lines. Since I did the evaporation outdoors, and there are no homes nearby in the downwind direction, the fumes would be quickly diluted to a point well below the OSHA guidelines for workplace exposure. I don't have any way to determine how the alcohol and its additives effect the finished product of parodinal, but it seems to work OK. The paracetamol was still slightly damp with methanol when I made the developer, but it seemed to work about the same as a previous batch that had all the clumps and floating chunks in it.

    Since marcsv discovered that paracetamol capsules have little if any filler, the alcohol extraction is pretty much unnecessary unless a person lives where the capsules aren't available. If I had known this when I did the extraction, I might have still done it anyway just to satisfy my mad scientist cravings. But in the future I will probably use the contents of the capsules, after I run out of the tablets.
    Happiness is a load of bulk chemicals, a handful of recipes, a brick of film and a box of paper. - desertrat

  2. #12
    ZorkiKat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by desertrat View Post
    Hello Jay,

    I didn't know UST existed until recently. I did some googling to see if there were some other sites where your photography was posted, because I particularly like what you've been able to do with older Russian cameras, which are not generally held in very high esteem over here. I enjoy using them. I used to visit the Russiancamera forum at Beststuff.com, and I vaguely remembered a post you made that referenced teaching. I'm just a hobbyist, but there are educators here at APUG, and if they knew you were an educator also, I think they would like to know that. Would you tell us what you teach at UST?

    .
    Hi desertrat

    I handle some photography (what else? )classes in UST. Just basic courses.

    Yep, I also used to visit Russiancamera at beststuff, but haven't been there because of some email glitches. The situation is probably true in many places- FSU cameras are looked down for being unreliable, or even unable to
    work at all. May be true in some cases, but a well-calibrated FED or Zorki is able to do what their Leica equivalents can do. Been able to "convert" a few to the creed too. Spreading paRodinal gospel is next

    Jay
    FED ZORKI SURVIVAL SITE
    RANGEFINDERFILIPINAS
    Zorkikat.Com

    "不管黑猫白猫能抓到老鼠就是好猫。" 邓小平
    It doesn't matter if a cat is black or white, so long as it catches mice.-邓小平

  3. #13
    desertrat's Avatar
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    Crystals?

    Hi Jay,

    Does your latest batch of parodinal have crystals at the bottom of the bottle? I looked hard at the image you posted, and thought I saw something along the bottom rim of the bottle, but couldn't be sure. Some have said that there must be a few crystals of PAP present, or the solution will deteriorate rapidly. What has been your experience with this?
    Happiness is a load of bulk chemicals, a handful of recipes, a brick of film and a box of paper. - desertrat

  4. #14
    ZorkiKat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by desertrat View Post
    Hi Jay,

    Does your latest batch of parodinal have crystals at the bottom of the bottle? I looked hard at the image you posted, and thought I saw something along the bottom rim of the bottle, but couldn't be sure. Some have said that there must be a few crystals of PAP present, or the solution will deteriorate rapidly. What has been your experience with this?
    There is something settling at the bottom. It's something that's so fine but does not make the solution murky if ever they get stirred up. And they sink quickly too. I don't know if this is excess PAP. The dark areas seen on the bottom rim of the bottle isn't part of the solution at all, rather it's there as an effect of the way the bottle was photographed. There's a similar effect on the upper right portion of the bottle as well.

    Jay
    FED ZORKI SURVIVAL SITE
    RANGEFINDERFILIPINAS
    Zorkikat.Com

    "不管黑猫白猫能抓到老鼠就是好猫。" 邓小平
    It doesn't matter if a cat is black or white, so long as it catches mice.-邓小平

  5. #15

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    Jay
    My opened '79 year 500ml plastic bottle is like tea and I'm going to need a new bottle soon even at 1:100, (when I get down to the solid dregs). I'd not worry about using immature 3 year opened bottles.
    What do you use for paper developing?
    Noel

  6. #16
    titrisol's Avatar
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    Why evaporate???
    if you have filtered the starches and fillers form the acetaminophen you might as well just add water to your methanol/acetaminophen mixture.


    Quote Originally Posted by desertrat View Post
    Hello Jay,

    I didn't know UST existed until recently. I did some googling to see if there were some other sites where your photography was posted, because I particularly like what you've been able to do with older Russian cameras, which are not generally held in very high esteem over here. I enjoy using them. I used to visit the Russiancamera forum at Beststuff.com, and I vaguely remembered a post you made that referenced teaching. I'm just a hobbyist, but there are educators here at APUG, and if they knew you were an educator also, I think they would like to know that. Would you tell us what you teach at UST?

    "What about using grain alcohol, such as Everclear, rather than methanol?
    Also, what effect on the final product, if any, would this method bring about?

    Cheers,
    Eli"

    Hello Eli,

    Everclear isn't avaliable in California. We can buy denatured alcohol, which is mostly ethanol with a little methanol and a few assorted ketones thrown in for good measure. This would probably work fine. I used methanol because I can get it dirt cheap in the form of Heet brand fuel additive for automobiles. It is nearly anhydrous methanol with one percent additives to prevent corrosion in fuel lines. Since I did the evaporation outdoors, and there are no homes nearby in the downwind direction, the fumes would be quickly diluted to a point well below the OSHA guidelines for workplace exposure. I don't have any way to determine how the alcohol and its additives effect the finished product of parodinal, but it seems to work OK. The paracetamol was still slightly damp with methanol when I made the developer, but it seemed to work about the same as a previous batch that had all the clumps and floating chunks in it.

    Since marcsv discovered that paracetamol capsules have little if any filler, the alcohol extraction is pretty much unnecessary unless a person lives where the capsules aren't available. If I had known this when I did the extraction, I might have still done it anyway just to satisfy my mad scientist cravings. But in the future I will probably use the contents of the capsules, after I run out of the tablets.
    Mama took my APX away.....

  7. #17
    desertrat's Avatar
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    The alcohol extraction was an interesting diversion, and it was kinda fun. But if you can get paracetamol without fillers, there's no need to use alcohol at all. And I guess there's no need to be too concerned about whether or not there are crystals in the bottom of the paracetamol bottle. If it doesn't start looking like strong coffee, and develops film, that's all that really matters!
    Happiness is a load of bulk chemicals, a handful of recipes, a brick of film and a box of paper. - desertrat

  8. #18
    titrisol's Avatar
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    IIRC, Rodinal/PaRodinal have to be supersaturated solutions of p-aminophenol
    It is therefore vey important to have those cristal at the bottom

    Quote Originally Posted by desertrat View Post
    The alcohol extraction was an interesting diversion, and it was kinda fun. But if you can get paracetamol without fillers, there's no need to use alcohol at all. And I guess there's no need to be too concerned about whether or not there are crystals in the bottom of the paracetamol bottle. If it doesn't start looking like strong coffee, and develops film, that's all that really matters!
    Mama took my APX away.....

  9. #19

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    When I made mine from tablets, I filtered it through coffee filter paper. Crystals formed at the bottom of the bottle afterwards.

  10. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by titrisol View Post
    IIRC, Rodinal/PaRodinal have to be supersaturated solutions of p-aminophenol
    This is not true!

    What is present in there solutions is either sodium or potassium paraminophenolate.

    Paraminophenol is amphoteric which means that it can react with either acids or strong bases. It reacts with hydroxides to form a paraminophenolate which is very soluble in water and explains its use to make highly concentrated developers. However, if there is an excess of sodium or potassium hydroxide used to make the phenolate then the resulting solution will oxidize rapidly. The presence of small amount of unreacted paraminophenol base insures that there is not an excess of hydroxide present. It's presence is only useful during the making of the concentrate as an an indicator. Afterward it's presence serves no purpose. There is nothing mystical going on here, just acid base chemistry.

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