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  1. #11

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    FP4+ Grain

    Quote Originally Posted by gainer View Post
    I'm curious to know how to get coarse grain out of FP4+. I use mostly 35 mm and can't find the grain in an 8x10, and I have very good enlarging lenses. Let me in on your secret.
    Some who have used PMK or other pyro soups are not happy with the color of Pyrocat MC. Sandy uses it with good success in printing processes that need UV density. I have used the same recipe as Pyrocat MC, but substituting pyrogallol weight for weight for the catechol, and I use semistand development with no sign of unevenness. I use it 1:1:100 with the same carbonate B as for Pyrocat.
    I think you will like the Pyrocat MC, though. I can't even get grain out of 35 mm HP5+.
    Hi Pat

    Thanks for the feedback. I basically take the negative and look at it with a 10x loupe. There you can really see the grain. Also, I scan the negs with a Howtek 4500 drum scanner and I zoom to see the grain to match the grain to the micron.


    Best Regards,
    Ross

  2. #12

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    Very interesting the variation Pat Gainer suggests.
    I made the same with a perverted Pyrocat with Hydroquinone instead of Pyrocatechin with orange stain....
    Is the negative obteined with this formula similar to PMK or the color of stain is different?
    Developing times are similar to PMK or Pyrocat MC?
    How we could name this new creation? Pyro-Pyro :-)

  3. #13
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    I've been everywhere ooooohhh yeaahhhh still I'm standing tall.
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    Time for some better living through chemistry!
    "He took to writing poetry and visiting the elves: and though many shook their heads and touched their foreheads and said 'Poor old Baggins!' and though few believed any of his tales, he remained very happy till the end of his days, and those were extraordinarily long "- JRR Tolkien, ' The Hobbit '.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by ongarine View Post
    Very interesting the variation Pat Gainer suggests.
    I made the same with a perverted Pyrocat with Hydroquinone instead of Pyrocatechin with orange stain....
    Is the negative obteined with this formula similar to PMK or the color of stain is different?
    Developing times are similar to PMK or Pyrocat MC?
    How we could name this new creation? Pyro-Pyro :-)
    I just wrote Pyrogal MC on the bottle. The color is like PMK. I use it like Pyrocat with the K2CO3 alkali, usually diluted 1:1:100, and have had no problems with HP5+ developed 24 minutes at 70 F with agitation at 0, 8 and 16 minutes. I have so many versions of Pyrocat in my darkroom that I sometimes have to do eeny miny. My Daddy also taught me to "spitter-spider". He was an English Professor, so knew about such things. You spit a blob in your palm, say the mgic words "Spitter,spitter spider, I'll give you a drinkk of cider if you tell me where my (whatever you're looking for) is." Then with two fingers of the other hand you smak the ball of spit and follow the biggest blob.
    Gadget Gainer

  5. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by gainer View Post
    You spit a blob in your palm, say the mgic words "Spitter,spitter spider, I'll give you a drinkk of cider if you tell me where my (whatever you're looking for) is." Then with two fingers of the other hand you smak the ball of spit and follow the biggest blob.
    Yuck! I think I'll stick with flipping coins.

  6. #16

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    I use FP4+ and TMY never found big grain in negative in both PMK and pyrocat MC, and I can't see the difference accutance both PMK and Pyrocat negative, almost has the same sharpness, both of them have beautiful tonal separationsl in highlight
    quiet-light.blogspot.com

  7. #17
    PepMiro's Avatar
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    Grain with FP4+ and Efke25 in 4x5 sheets? I can't understand. How big are your enlargements?

  8. #18

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    [QUOTE=borgida;377707]Hi Pat

    Thanks for the feedback. I basically take the negative and look at it with a 10x loupe. There you can really see the grain. Also, I scan the negs with a Howtek 4500 drum scanner and I zoom to see the grain to match the grain to the micron.


    Best Regards,
    Ross[/QUOTE

    Sounds like you are looking at the equivalent of a 40"x50" enlargement (10x view of a 4x5 negative) with almost zero viewing distance. Yes at that level you will see the grain structure but is that realistic for print making. I make 16x20, 20x24 and larger prints from FP4+ and even when viewed from a few feet do not look at all grainy and are very sharp. Really do not understand your intention here - would it not be best to look at the finished prints from the appropriate viewing distance?

    I went down the road testing different films and developers and found there was no magic combination. Most of the time I use FP4+ in ID11 (1+1) or Pyrocat HD 10+10+1000 and love life and my sharp prints.

    Mike

  9. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by noseoil View Post
    P.P.S. Minimal agitation is defined as the first minute of gentle agitation, followed by 10 seconds every three minutes, until full development is realized for a given SBR. This is done (by me) using a diluted amount of pyrocat (1:1:150).
    What does "full development is realized for a given SBR" mean? What is SBR?

  10. #20
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    sper, I'm using "full development" to mean that for a given sbr, development is finished. The sbr number is a value which relates a paper's scale to light in the scene and development time, as a function of print contrast. SBR is "scene brightness range" in BTZS terminology.

    Full development can vary, according to the amount of contrast you want to see in a print. Some prints may require greater contrast than others, so I use the film's contrast to determine a print value.

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