I'm using wide-mouthed Nalgene bottles for the ease of pouring the chemistry back in the bottle. I did the maths on the storage and oxygen levels, and decided that within normal storage times (concentrated film developer or user paper developer solutions) it would take continuous shaking of one liter of developer in an otherwise empty ten-liter bottle to destroy the developer from oxidation alone.
So I don't bother with marbles, accordion bottles, protectan, butane, glass bottles or anything else now. The lessened risk of a major spill by using stable bottles with wide necks outweigh all other considerations.
-- Ole Tjugen, Luddite Elitist
I use both glass and plastic. The glass are 250ml and 1 liter typical brown bottles that I have to seal the tops with plastic wrap to make air tight. The plastic are 500ml clear bottles (air impermeable PETE plastic) that soda drinks come in. These are completely air tight; I've kept stock Dektol print developer in them for well over six months with no problem. Depending on what you buy, the colored plastic tops could also be used as a code to indicate one particular chemistry - red: developer, green: fix, etc.
Interesting. What kills the dev, then? Hydrolysis? I've noticed significantly longer life in full bottles than half-full, especially with home-compounded developers, so maybe it's oxidation + hydrolysis. And don't I recall reading somewhere that oxidation is autocatalytic, with oxidation products further speeding the oxidation?
Originally Posted by Ole
Having said this, DD-X seems to last forever anyway in the original bottles.
Brown glass bottles for the developers with Protectan gas. Tetenal chemical plastic bottles for most other liquids.
Someone on apug (Ole?) at one time suggested using wine sealing stoppers. See: -
Anyone tried them?
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I don't know about the soda bottles in the UK, but those used in the US are quite permeable. The fizz goes out within about 2 months of bottling, while in cans lasts up to 2 years. I have never seen beer put up in plastic - there must be a reason.
Originally Posted by Bob F.
"I always take a camera, That way I never have to say 'Gee, look at that - I wish I had a camera'" -Joe Clark, H.B.S.S.
Since switching back to glass bottles, I haven't bothered with the marbles or inert gas. It simply seemed that the amount of air inside the bottle was insignificant, and I have not noted any problems with any of my developers. If you think about it, there's much more surface area on the outside of a permeable plastic bottle than on the surface of the developer inside the bottle. I've firmly come to believe that oxidation problems are caused by the air outside the bottle, not inside. But I could be proven wrong.
Can't say: certainly does not seem to be the case here. I have had Coke etc in plastic bottles last many, many, months without loss of fizz by the time another Christmas comes around. The bottle of cola in my fridge has a "Best Before" date of April 2007.
Originally Posted by Lopaka
I have also seen beer and cider in plastic bottles in supermarkets (but always the lowest quality). I think it's more a cultural thing: plastic = cheap. I've heard of talk where the powers that be want breweries to use plastic for bottled beer and other alcoholic beverages (glass bottles make very effective short range projectile weapons) but the brewers are resisting.
FWIW, I've had ID-11 in Coke bottles for 14 months with no change in colour and no apparent loss of activity when used. I guess you need to make sure it is PET and the cap is airtight and also of a relatively impermeable plastic.
However, what Ole has written is very interesting. A wide top bottle would certainly make pouring the fixer & stop back in the bottle much simpler. Ole, what time limit would you put on a developer stored as you suggest?
I'm in the US, and although I usually drink my sodas within a week or so of buying them, my impression is that they'll last several months, if not more, in plastic bottles. The "best before" dates in the US are, AFAIK, stamped only on diet sodas, and they refer to the deterioration of the aspartame (the artificial sweetener in most diet sodas), which decay in a matter of months. Certainly I've bought diet sodas that are plenty fizzy but not sweet enough because the aspartame has gone bad. Unless aspartame is a developer ingredient, I don't think that's an issue for our purposes!
Originally Posted by Bob F.
Referring to glass only,in a half-full 1L bottle:
500ml air contains about 100ml oxygen which is about (0.100x16x2)/22.4 =0.14 grams oxygen.
500 ml developer initially contains about 0.005 grams oxygen (solubility of oxygen)
In well sealed glass bottles oxidation of the developer follows from allowing air in each time the cap/stopper is removed.
Well, that's my theory.