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  1. #11
    lee
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    not being a alt printer take this with a grain of salt, but the overall stain is harder (Gainer made reference to this in his post above) to print thru and the reason Sandy started thinking of a developer like Pyrocat HD. I used PMK for several years (like 10 or so) until Sandy started talking about Pyrocat and now after a couple of years I would not go back to PMK.

    lee\c

  2. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by buze View Post
    Does this suggestion of not re-bathing the film apply to negatives made for alternative processes ? A "thin" film will scan and print well, but it might be hard to expose for UV contact printing ?

    I have mixed some PMK, but I'm still unsure how I "need" to use it for contact printing...
    The recomendation to not rebathe the film in the used PMK developer especially applies to negatives made for alternate processes.

    Pat Gainer said it well. Any overall stain acts as extra density in printing platinum and other papers that respond only to the blue and UV. The additional overall stain acts like an overall layer of fog - it increases negative density and masks useful printing information.
    Tom Hoskinson
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  3. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by gainer View Post
    I doubt that you need an overall stain in any case. The alternative processes generally need a high contrast, but as close to zero density in the shadows as you can get without losing image contrast. What some would call "meaty" negatives of low contrast will not be good. Any overall stain acts as extra density in printing platinum and other papers that respond only to the blue and UV. Sandy knows more about this than I do.
    As Pat indicates, overall stain, or B+F stain, should be avoided like the plague when developing negatives for alternative processes. The extra stain increases printing times without any benefits.

    A "thin" negative will print well, so long as it has sufficient shadow detail and enough contrast for the process. There is absolutely no point in making bullet proof negatives with low contrast as they will not print well with most of the alternative processes.

    I have personally *never* recommended the alkaline post-developer treatment with staining developers. There is no benefit, and there may be some down sides.

    Sandy King

  4. #14

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    Thanks everyone for putting the matter to rest, this is very valuable information.

  5. #15

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    There we go, I'm no longer a Pyro Virgin

    I wasn't very brave so I processed a Shanghai GP3 120 done with a pinhole camera -- chicken !

    + prewashed 2 minutes (the shanghai is very colorful!)
    + 10 minutes in + PMK with one agitation every 15 seconds
    + then 2 bath of water instead of my usual stop bath (not sure if the stop bath is "bad" or just "not necessary")
    + then 5 minutes in Ilford Rapid Fixer
    + then 20 minutes in water, with replacement every 5 minutes or so (tap water is too cold, I felt)

    The negs are not dry, but they look "good" from here. Fun the stain ! First time I see a pyro neg too

  6. #16
    RAP
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    buze,

    Is Ilford Rapid Fixer a non hardening, non acid? I would check to see if it is. If so, you lost your stain. Pyro developers only stain in non acid fixers like tf-4 from Photographer's Formulary.
    Time & tides wait for no one, especially photographers.

  7. #17

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    Well I know it's non-hardening; non acid I'm not entirely sure...

    Here is a color scan of one of the negative :


    And the resulting direct positive:


    I noticed that there are dark spot/blotches in the highlights.. I'm reasonably certain it's not the ceiling that is dirty
    The grain is next to inexistent, but these tiny dark blotches will surely show in a print... I know it's cheap film, but it's "clean" in other developers (DD-X and Barry's 2 bath)

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