Switch to English Language Passer en langue française Omschakelen naar Nederlandse Taal Wechseln Sie zu deutschen Sprache Passa alla lingua italiana
Members: 71,899   Posts: 1,584,382   Online: 793
      
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 14
  1. #1

    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Shooter
    35mm
    Posts
    415

    Stand dev: Air bells, all films equal?

    I've recently entered into the exciting realm of stand and semi-stand development. I've been using the Formulary's TFX-2 version of FX-2 at twice the normal dilution. My first attempt was with Pan F+ which gave me tantilizing if very high contrast negatives. My latest go has been with Acros. The resulting negatives are inspiring and the density range looks about perfect. They are also rediculously sharp.

    The only problem is, I've just had my first ever run in with air bells! Little low density spot appearing in the sky region on about every other frame.

    My agitation sceme was 60sec intial and 60sec at the 30 min mark, followed by an hour of full stand. I did NOT presoak. I certainly will next time, but my question is:

    Are some films more prone to air bells than others?

    I remember hearing at some point that Ilford doesn't recommend presoaking their films as they apply a wetting agent to the emulsion. My Pan F+ negs came out fine and the Acos negs were littered with air bells, both with equal development technique...

  2. #2
    Steve Sherman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Connecticut
    Shooter
    ULarge Format
    Posts
    522
    Images
    2
    There seem to me to be so many positives why film should go through a Pre Soak and so few why nots, for me it doesn't even merit a discussion. Pre soak each and every film you use.

    Air bells can be a result of surface tension also, in the winter months obviously the air is dryer and more static can be created, hence surface tension. Therefore, I would always presoak and my initial agitation would always be vigorous in nature. These two steps should yield terrific results

    Lastly, to a fault remain constant with the technique you use each and everytime.

    Cheers!
    Real Photographs are Born Wet !
    http://www.steve-sherman.com

  3. #3
    karavelov's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Sofia, Bulgaria
    Shooter
    Medium Format
    Posts
    75
    I have also noted that some films attach more bubbles than others. I didn't knew that presoak is not recommended for some films.My experience is that the more sensitive films (ISO 400) attach more air bubbles. It is more evident in medium format where the image goes 2 mm to the edge of the film.

    Does adding a little photo-flo to the developer will help ?

  4. #4

    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Minneapolis, MN
    Shooter
    Medium Format
    Posts
    695
    Images
    3
    Maybe a good thwack on the countertop as you set the down the tank will shake loose those air bubbles.

  5. #5

    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Northern Nevada
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    54
    Quote Originally Posted by zenrhino View Post
    Maybe a good thwack on the countertop as you set the down the tank will shake loose those air bubbles.
    Just what I do, I dump in the developer and give the tank ( in this case Patterson Tanks) a couple of good solid thumps on the table and start the agitation schedule. If I forget I sometimes end up with air bell's and they seem to occure almost anywhere on the negative (always on the negative I really want). Doesn't seem to matter what film it is from the cheapest to the most expensive, Just happens. Dave

  6. #6

    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    2,069
    Quote Originally Posted by zenrhino View Post
    Maybe a good thwack on the countertop as you set the down the tank will shake loose those air bubbles.
    That's what I was always taught from day one. I honestly don't recall ever having an air bubble problem.

  7. #7
    reellis67's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Central Florida
    Shooter
    4x5 Format
    Posts
    1,887
    Images
    13
    For what it's worth, I've never seen problems with air bells with either 'regular' or stand development. With stand development I've always done a 2 minute pre-soak, even with Ilford films, but I don't do this with 'regular' development. I do however rap the tank after agitation each time just to be sure no matter what type of development I'm using.

    - Randy

  8. #8

    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Southern California
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    3,879
    Images
    11
    Quote Originally Posted by karavelov View Post
    I have also noted that some films attach more bubbles than others. I didn't knew that presoak is not recommended for some films.My experience is that the more sensitive films (ISO 400) attach more air bubbles. It is more evident in medium format where the image goes 2 mm to the edge of the film.

    Does adding a little photo-flo to the developer will help ?
    I always presoak with tempered water for each type of agitation that I use: (continuous, minimal, semi-stand and stand agitation). I do not have airbells. I never add photo-flo to my developer. I frequently use Kodak TRi-X - 320, Kodak TMAX 400 and J&C Classic Pan 400.
    Tom Hoskinson
    ______________________________

    Everything is analog - even digital :D

  9. #9

    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Posts
    1,660
    Images
    5
    Good Evening, Dave,

    ". . .give the tank ( in this case Patterson Tanks) a couple of good solid thumps on the table . . ."

    Decades ago, I also had this habit with Paterson tanks; the habit ended when my tank cracked. It was awkward to hold it tightly together throughout the rest of the processing steps! The tank was quickly repaired with solvent cement, of course, but the experience was enough to convince me to go SS. The Paterson equipment has been sitting on the shelf ever since.

    Konical

  10. #10

    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    2,025
    whacks on a surface do not need to be that hard if the surface is hard enough. This is why I used to use my kitchen floor (on concrete). If the surface is not hard you can really abuse the tank and the air bells stay put! If you sticke it with the base parallel to the surface damage is highly unlikely. I dont have a solid floor in Kabul (and people sleep shifts nearby!!!), so I use by body armor plates now works a treat. I found Pan F to be a major pain with Ilfosol S when it comes to air bells. Just could not get rid of them entirely so wont use this combo again.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast


 

APUG PARTNERS EQUALLY FUNDING OUR COMMUNITY:



Contact Us  |  Support Us!  |  Advertise  |  Site Terms  |  Archive  —   Search  |  Mobile Device Access  |  RSS  |  Facebook  |  Linkedin