Switch to English Language Passer en langue française Omschakelen naar Nederlandse Taal Wechseln Sie zu deutschen Sprache Passa alla lingua italiana
Members: 69,958   Posts: 1,523,002   Online: 1206
      
Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 26
  1. #11

    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Shooter
    Sub 35mm
    Posts
    1,322
    Mark,

    Not quite. I bought both of Tims book and he even mentioned that at the time of printing things have changed. Oriental does not lith and neither did the Ilford papers I tried. I also tried the Arista EDU Ultra with 0 success and as Tim states on pg 17 he used to get good results with it but has not recently tested it. Forte is no longer available, Bregger is no longer left pg 16 as that is re-branded Forte, Nuance is suppose to work but JandC isn’t open and you cant get it either pg 16 first paragraph, I heard Kentmere classic art worked no longer available either, so what is left that will work?

    Also with recent change to enviroment the paper that used cadium in it that lith very well are not allowed to be made with cadium anymore.

    Now he did mention on a positive note (unconfirmed positive note ) that Ilford is making changes pg 17 last paragraph that they might be bringing products to market that will lith. If they do I will be buying it.

    Fomatone MG and Kentmere Kentonna are the only ones as far as I know with my limited knowledge.

    So Mike with the recent change in the game the book no longer answer the question as quite a lot of the papers mentioned are no longer available.

    So as I see it this thread is extremely important and useful to those of us that love printing with lith developers.

  2. #12
    Travis Nunn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Henrico, Virginia USA
    Shooter
    Medium Format
    Posts
    1,604
    Images
    32
    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Layne View Post
    A lot of paper would be saved by buying a copy of Tim Rudman's new book.

    Almost all the questions on this thread are preanswered
    Mark
    So you're suggesting we not experiment and discuss our findings? Tim's books are invaluable, but even Tim would encourage experimenting.
    ____________________________________________
    Searching my way to perplexion

  3. #13

    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Shooter
    Sub 35mm
    Posts
    1,322
    Quote Originally Posted by t_nunn View Post
    So you're suggesting we not experiment and discuss our findings? Tim's books are invaluable, but even Tim would encourage experimenting.
    Exactly. I am with you 100% Travis!

  4. #14

    Join Date
    May 2006
    Shooter
    Medium Format
    Posts
    667
    Quote Originally Posted by t_nunn View Post
    Now that my favorite paper for lith printing is soon to be gone (Forte Fortezo) I need to start looking for replacement. I've not tried Kentmere Bromide before and I'm curious to know if anyone has used it for lith printing and if so, what are your opinions on it. I've read that it's a fine paper for regular printing, but I've not read any comments on it with regards to lith printing.
    Travis,
    The bromide paper doesn't lith. I don't use it but have once again checked with Kentmere, who confirm this.

    It MIGHT be good in lith redevelopment after bleach though as it seems to be the supercoating that prevents it from lith developing with infectious development. Again, I stress I haven't tried this but there are interesting other examples of similar behaviour (e.g. Fineprint & Fimeprint Warmtone).

    The emulsion in Art Document is a bromide emulsion without supercoat and it does lith extremely well.

    If you have the Bromide paper in stock try bleaching and redevelopment and let us know.
    Tim

  5. #15

    Join Date
    May 2006
    Shooter
    Medium Format
    Posts
    667
    Quote Originally Posted by t_nunn View Post
    snip snip
    I've tried Kentona before and for some reason wasn't too crazy about it. I've tried Fomabrom, too. Its not bad in lith (you can get some really nice, deep blues with gold toner)

    I'm still waiting for Kentmere to release their Art Classic replacement. That was my favorite before Fortezo. I bought a pack of the Fomatone Chamois a few weeks ago to see how it compares to the old Art Classic, but for various reasons I haven't had a chance to try it yet.

    I am hoping Tim reads this. I took a couple of lith printing sessions with him at the APUG conference last year and it was great. I just wish I could afford to take a full workshop with him.
    The Fomatone MG Chamois looks great Travis. I have just got a box but not yet used it (a bit fresh, only just coated).
    As an AC lover, the base will be familiar to you though. It is the last stock of the base that Art Classic used until it became no longer available, so it has that lovely Art Classic surface and a warm base.
    I have seen and handled it and it does look lovely and I'm looking forward to using it. I have exactly the right images in mind to print on it.

    By the way, you mention the Art Classic replacement. As you know from the book it was scheduled to have been out by now. I've checked with Kentmere and the latest news is that they were not satisfied with the paper when it came off the coating plant (which is not always the same as the lab results, which I saw for AC and looked good)
    However, they have sourced another new base now, which looks extremely promising (& thicker) and lab tests look good they tell me. They plan to start coating shortly before the 'FOCUS' show in the UK at the end of Feb, to have sampes on show. Large scale production can throw up differences not seem in the lab though. The paper needs to lie fairly flat, (steamed during coating etc). IF production goes as well as the lab samples they hope to have it out by the end of Spring. Let's hope it goes as planned. :-)
    Tim

  6. #16

    Join Date
    May 2006
    Shooter
    Medium Format
    Posts
    667
    Quote Originally Posted by bwakel View Post
    Travis

    snip snip ... Kentona gives the wildest colours (particularly after selenium toning) and the deepest blacks whilst Fomatone and Chamois give more subtle mushroom/ochre colours with lower D-Max and react well with selenium and gold.

    Barry
    Barry, try Fomatone MG (& MG Classic) in much higher dilutions of dev. Then you will see the colours shift to strong salmon colour - and tric colour slpit in selenium
    Tim

  7. #17
    Travis Nunn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Henrico, Virginia USA
    Shooter
    Medium Format
    Posts
    1,604
    Images
    32
    Thanks for the input Tim! I certainly hope everything goes well with Kentmere's Art Classic replacement. I still have about 1/2 a box left of the old AC and I'm using it very sparingly.

    Your thought about bleaching and redeveloping the Bromide paper is an interesting thought, though. Once I go through some of the new paper I have, I might give that a try with the Bromide paper.

    Cheers!
    ____________________________________________
    Searching my way to perplexion

  8. #18

    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Shooter
    Sub 35mm
    Posts
    1,322
    Tim when you say higher what do you mean ;1:5 or 1:50? Which direction are you referring to when saying higher?

    Thank you again fro the excellent info.

  9. #19

    Join Date
    May 2006
    Shooter
    Medium Format
    Posts
    667
    Quote Originally Posted by kjsphoto View Post
    Mark,

    Not quite. I bought both of Tims book and he even mentioned that at the time of printing things have changed. Oriental does not lith and neither did the Ilford papers I tried. I also tried the Arista EDU Ultra with 0 success and as Tim states on pg 17 he used to get good results with it but has not recently tested it. Forte is no longer available, Bregger is no longer left pg 16 as that is re-branded Forte, Nuance is suppose to work but JandC isn’t open and you cant get it either pg 16 first paragraph, I heard Kentmere classic art worked no longer available either, so what is left that will work?

    Also with recent change to enviroment the paper that used cadium in it that lith very well are not allowed to be made with cadium anymore.

    Now he did mention on a positive note (unconfirmed positive note ) that Ilford is making changes pg 17 last paragraph that they might be bringing products to market that will lith. If they do I will be buying it.

    Fomatone MG and Kentmere Kentonna are the only ones as far as I know with my limited knowledge.

    So Mike with the recent change in the game the book no longer answer the question as quite a lot of the papers mentioned are no longer available.

    So as I see it this thread is extremely important and useful to those of us that love printing with lith developers.
    Hi Kevin,
    Just to pick up a couple of your points ...

    Cadmium: My understanding, from a number of close sources that I regard as highly reliable, is that Fomatone MG (& MG Classic) (not the other Foma papers) is the only paper STILL containing cadmium that is currently made - unless there are some obscure papers in Asia that we don't see. The way it responds to development and to selenium certainly makes this probable. EEC regullations will surely bite soon and change this state of affairs, as they did with the old Kentona, Art Classic and Tapestry papers.

    Ilford: Please understand that AFAIK there are no FIRM plans by Ilford to bring out lithable papers, but they have indicated that this is one (of several) options that may be up for consideration at some future date, so don't rule it in or out. The entry in the book was not intended to raise false hopes, but to signal a 'watch this space' approach, in case they do.

    "Fomatone MG and Kentmere Kentonna are the only ones as far as I know":
    Although the loss of Forte papers again would be a big loss if it happens, things are not quite that bad though, I'm pleased to say.
    In addition to Kentona from Kentmere, we have their new Art Classic and Art doc papers probably coming out shortly.
    We have Fotospeed Lith paper don't forget.
    All the Foma emulsions, but especially Fomatone MG, MG Classic and MG Chamois.
    Kentmere Fineprint VC Warmtone liths well.
    Slavitch liths to a very cold graphic result that didn't appeal to me much when I tried it, but I was impressed with the Russian submissions to The World of Lith Printing that were on that paper. Take a look.
    Rollie - I'm not sure what has happened to these plans that I mentioned in the book. The information came direct from source and they said they would send samples when available. However, follow up queries from me have not been answered so I don't know any more at this stage.
    There are a few other question marks on some other papers as you know - but don't forget we also have the bleach and redevelopment option and this pulls in other papers that don't lith dev on what I call '1st pass' but do on '2nd pass', (as mentioned on p.18 re Fineprint Warmtone & Fineprint for example)

    Bottom line ... there are still plenty of good lith materials out there but we live in changing times! And maybe the Forte story isn't yet over. They have been here before after all.
    Tim

  10. #20

    Join Date
    May 2006
    Shooter
    Medium Format
    Posts
    667
    Quote Originally Posted by kjsphoto View Post
    Tim when you say higher what do you mean ;1:5 or 1:50? Which direction are you referring to when saying higher?

    Thank you again fro the excellent info.
    Try around 1+20 or more Kevin.
    Combined with greater over-exposure you can get really intense colours too. Take a look at the Guitar image caption in Moersch's portfolio section in World of Lith Printing. He uses this technique with added Br for strong colour and deep blacks - see also the lith-lith 2-bath technique in a previous chapter.
    Many of my images are softer and less graphic and can take the softer warmer blacks that go with the high dilution colours, as I use it prior to selenium, which gives me the final colours I want, but also deepens the blacks if I have let them come through.
    Tim

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast


 

APUG PARTNERS EQUALLY FUNDING OUR COMMUNITY:



Contact Us  |  Support Us!  |  Advertise  |  Site Terms  |  Archive  —   Search  |  Mobile Device Access  |  RSS  |  Facebook  |  Linkedin