Kentmere Bromide for Lith Printing?

[Mark Layne]

So you're suggesting we not experiment and discuss our findings? Tim's books are invaluable, but even Tim would encourage experimenting.

Not at all. I probably dabble around more than most. I have found though that many of the frustrations I experience are resolved by a careful rereading of a section of one of these books that I glossed over.
Mark

[Mark Layne]

Mark,

Not quite. I bought both of Tims book and he even mentioned that at the time of printing things have changed. Oriental does not lith and neither did the Ilford papers I tried. I also tried the Arista EDU Ultra with 0 success and as Tim states on pg 17 he used to get good results with it but has not recently tested it. Forte is no longer available, Bregger is no longer left pg 16 as that is re-branded Forte, Nuance is suppose to work but JandC isn’t open and you cant get it either pg 16 first paragraph, I heard Kentmere classic art worked no longer available either, so what is left that will work?

Also with recent change to enviroment the paper that used cadium in it that lith very well are not allowed to be made with cadium anymore.

Now he did mention on a positive note (unconfirmed positive note ) that Ilford is making changes pg 17 last paragraph that they might be bringing products to market that will lith. If they do I will be buying it.

Fomatone MG and Kentmere Kentonna are the only ones as far as I know with my limited knowledge.

So Mike with the recent change in the game the book no longer answer the question as quite a lot of the papers mentioned are no longer available.

So as I see it this thread is extremely important and useful to those of us that love printing with lith developers.

Kevin
Just a couple of points from my own experience. Forte Polywarmtone seems to give beautiful pinks with ease and will be sorely missed (if its pinks you like). Fomatone MG, Fotokemika Vario Classic, and Kentona are my next choices for pinks.
I also feel that more attention should be given to Ilford MG Warmtone as it is likely to be available for a long time. I find it can give very nice ivory tones, but it is neglected I believe because many do not understand that it is very prone to 'turbo-fix up effect'. If this is recognized it can be lovely. Also results from CuSO4 bleaching and redevelopment in lith are unique. Bob Carnie uses it for much of his work.
In my youth I made many negatives on soot and chalk films which I abandoned because of unpleasing tonality. A lot of these now historic records make lovely lith prints
Hope this is helpful and keep on experimenting.
Mark

[Travis Nunn]

Mark, when you say "turbo-fix up effect" are you talking about the bleaching that occurs in rapid fix? If so, does alkaline fix get around this problem? The problem I've had with Ilford papers in lith (and I'm not sure if I tried Ilford WT or not, but I think I have) is that it takes forever in the developer and ends up with a really nasty peppered look to it. My normal dilution is 1:19 (Maco Superlith), do you use a weaker or stronger dilution?

[Mark Layne]

Mark, when you say "turbo-fix up effect" are you talking about the bleaching that occurs in rapid fix? If so, does alkaline fix get around this problem? The problem I've had with Ilford papers in lith (and I'm not sure if I tried Ilford WT or not, but I think I have) is that it takes forever in the developer and ends up with a really nasty peppered look to it. My normal dilution is 1:19 (Maco Superlith), do you use a weaker or stronger dilution?

This effect is where the paper in the developer looks milky and underdeveloped especially in the shadows so you keep on developing and when you put the paper in the fix you suddenly have a print that is hopelessly gone past and plugged up shadows. It usually occurs with massive overexposure to get nice highlight colour, and the solution is to cut back developing time.
I have found that it is very difficult to judge Ilford WT in the developer, so I resort to timing the development after a little trial, and the results can be rewarding. A beautiful ivory highlight may look white in the wash. I believe it is this that causes many to write off MGWT for lith, but it can really be used to emulate an 'old time' print nicely.
Polywarmtone on the other hand seems much easier to judge and it's beautiful pinks will be missed.
Fomatone MG is also beautiful but a little more salmon.
Kentona nice too but a little more gritty in the midtones.
The too developers I use are powdered Kodalith at 1+1+12 and some old DuPont Cronalith left over from my days in the printing business at 1+1+24, so it seems to depend on how potent the developer is to start with. They seem to produce much the same colour.
There is a paragraph or two in Tim's first book p61-63.
I have been told that Ilford Hypam fixer is good but havent tried it, I have been using Agfa FX3 which is alkaline(barely).
Now I need to go shovel snow and ice pellets.
Mark

[timeUnit]

Papers not mentioned yet:

Foma Fomabrom (a favorite). But try it in hot lith. It's very very slow in "standard" lith. It gives very nice clay highlights and deeeep blacks. After a little bath in Selenium the paper cools to a slight purple in the shadows and a cooler clay tone. It's really really nice!

Forte Bromofort. I'm only experimenting so far, but the results are promising. Here too is the clay tone, but more yellow. I might post a scan sometime soon.

Cheerio
Henning

Ps. I have gotten nice resluts with: Polywarmtone, Fortezo, Fomatone, Fomabrom, Bromofort, Agfa MCC (pepper dots, but looks nice anyway). Adox VarioClassic FB Matt (bleach redevelop). I use Moersch EasyLith and Maco Superlith.

[timeUnit]

There is a scan of a lith print made on Forte Bromofort in my gallery.