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  1. #11
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    That fixer contains Triethanol amine. As with any organic solvent, please be sure to wear rubber gloves when using it and during the early stages of the wash cycle. This is true of developers containing TEA as well.

    PE

  2. #12

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    The JT Baker Triethanolamine Material Safety Data Sheet:

    http://www.jtbaker.com/msds/englishhtml/t5291.htm
    Tom Hoskinson
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  3. #13

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    Some of the physical/chemical properties of Triethanolamine:

    pH: 10.5 (15 g/l H2O)
    Vapor Pressure: 3.59E-006 mm Hg @ 25 deg C
    Viscosity: 601 cps @ 25 deg C
    Boiling Point: 335 deg C (dec)
    Freezing/Melting Point: 21 deg C ( 69.80F)
    Autoignition Temperature: 315 deg C ( 599.00 deg F)
    Flash Point: 179 deg C ( 354.20 deg F)

    http://www.catalogue.fisher.co.uk/sc...etNumber=23930
    Tom Hoskinson
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  4. #14
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    Tom;

    One thing you missed is that triethanol amine sometimes contains a fair amount of diethanol amine. Add that MSDS to your list.

    But to be fair, the bottle does contain a warning. And, I am not against triethanol amine use in photography. I'm just cautioning that this fix is not your average fix. It is neither good nor bad in its own context.

    I think it fair to add here that no internal research level fix or commercial fix made or designed by Eastman Kodak contained triethanol amine, as far as I know. I have verified this recently with Grant Haist to insure that my memory was intact on this.

    PE

  5. #15

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    PE, Pat Gainer has commented on the diethanolamine that is often present in triethanolamine in several of his Apug posts.

    http://www.dow.com/amines/prod/ethano-dea.htm

    Dow TEA and DEA Safety Sheets:

    http://www.dow.com/webapps/msds/MSDS...txtSortExp=ASC
    Tom Hoskinson
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  6. #16

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    OK, I did a quick read of the MSD sheets. Is Triethanolamine more unsafe than Ilfords Fix? Is this the chemical in TF-4?
    RJ

  7. #17
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    TF-4 contains borax as buffer (AFAIK), and some of the Kodak and Ilford fixes contain acetate and borate as well.

    Using rubber gloves in the presence of an organic solvent like TEA is prudent, but in the presence of borate salts is not really necessary if you are careful. That is my opinion.

    PE

  8. #18

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    I would speculate that water is the primary solvent in Clear Fix and that the Triethanolamine plus the water provides a pH buffer for the fixer. How much Triethanolamine is in the mix is important - of course.

    I always wear nitrile gloves (Safeskins) when I work with photochemistry.
    Tom Hoskinson
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  9. #19
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    Ok, here is something interesting.

    I've been on the phone with both Grant Haist and Bill Troop. This is the combined wisdom of 3 people with a combined background in B&W and color photography that spans nearly 100 years. So, here goes.

    We find no documented evidence of any image stability tests having ever been run with a fix containing triethanolamine.

    We find no documented evidence regarding any research that resulted in a recommendation of the use of TEA in fixers at Kodak. This is in spite of the fact that Kodak produced several alkaline fixers commercially.

    Grant remembers one recommendation that he not use it, but he cannot remember the reason for it. It came from several sources including Eaton.

    That summarizes my findings on the science of TEA containing fixers.

    Take it for what it is worth. Myself, I would run image stability tests.

    PE

  10. #20

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    PE, I don't know of any other fixers that incorporate Triethanolamine either.

    I agree that image stability testing of films and papers processed in fixers containing triethanolamine is a reasonable and prudent thing to do. I would expect that Ryuji Suzuki has performed image stability testing on materials processed in Clear Fix.
    Tom Hoskinson
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