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  1. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by jovo View Post
    ... but might a certain number of
    water changes suffice for paper?
    I process in a rather unique way; single-tray, one-shot,
    very dilute chemistry. Well not that unique. Those who use
    rotary processing single-tube, one-shot, more than the usual
    dilution chemistry, share much the same method.

    I've found that by using very dilute fixer and a protracted
    dilute hca that only one protracted still water wash is needed.
    Zero stain results when tested by the HT-2 test. The HT-2
    tests for residual hypo. So, no changes of water. Hard to
    believe. I'll be doing some retesting for confirmation.

    The fixer and hca are not off the shelf. Dan

  2. #42
    juan's Avatar
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    Dan, if you don't mind telling us, what fixer and dilution are you using?
    juan

  3. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by juan View Post
    Dan, if you don't mind telling us, what
    fixer and dilution are you using? juan
    The test series I conducted recently was based on
    sodium thiosulfate made a little alkaline by addition of
    sodium bicarbonate. An easy to mix fresh fix at time of
    use. The dilution is 1/16 of the usual sodium thiosulfate
    anhydrous fixer formula.

    I'll need to review my tests and will narrow my focus to that
    formula for confirmation of results. The method is worth further
    study. A single protracted still hypo clearing followed by a single
    protracted still water diffusion wash will be a help. At least
    for myself as I process in a somewhat unique manor. Dan

  4. #44

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    matti
    most after two fixing methods work well as long as you have fresh solutions and proper sequence. however multigrade papers (most) will tone a little or none in selenium (i mean, hue change) and graded papers will tone best depending on the developer used. papers treated in soft developers will take very long time for toning. sometimes best results are acquired by using brown toner, if hue change is desired, up to 1:63 for a short inmersion (say 2 to 3 minutes) at 38˚C (100˚F) following manufacturer's instructions. my preference is the kodak brown toner; if used, just stay away from the fumes and use it in a well ventilated place.

  5. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by matti View Post
    Before I have always picked out dry prints, soaked them and then toned them in selenum. But now I want to be a bit more efficient and tone the prints at the same session as printing.

    Would this procedure work?

    During the printing:
    I make a quite short fix
    Transfer the print to a water tray for a minute
    Transfer the print to a new water tray for storage.

    After the session:
    Make fresh fixer and refix all prints a second time.
    Quickly wash the prints in water.
    Selenum tone
    Wash for 60 mins.

    So, the question is: do I need a long wash before toning?

    /matti
    The process for selenium toning that I have found works great is as follows:
    After the 2nd fix (fresh) and rinse for a few minutes in water and then into hypo clear for 10-15 minutes. I then archival wash for 90 minutes then selenium toned the washed prints and then back into the wash for another 60 minutes. I never have any staining problems and get the maximum effect in density and color from the selenium. I have used this process for several years and have had many compliments from experienced printers on the quality of my prints. Good luck.

    Dennis

  6. #46

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    Revamping an old thread - as I've been reading through posts on APUG for hours now and I'm still a bit confused about viable fixing/washing/toning sequences.

    I have a very large amount of prints in editions I need to make and I would like to cut the processing time down as much as possible. Currently, I have a basic set up for Ilford Fiber MGIV - Ilford Multigrade Developer, Ilfostop, Ilford Rapid Fixer and would like to included Selenium toning to the wet processing time (instead of drying and toning later), but still avoid staining.

    I've read so many varying techniques for toning, but I'm wondering if after a 2 bath process using Ilford Rapid Fixer, can I transfer the prints directly to Harman Selenium Toner from the fixer? Certain instructions say I can, but these all say that the toner is to be mixed with HCA - not with water. Could I put freshly fixed prints into Harman Selenium toner mixed with water?

    Some say staining is from residual silver; some say staining is from acid to alkaline. Is it one or the other? Is it both? Both the Ilford Rapid Fixer and Harman Selenium Toner contain ammonium thiosulphate, so it seems to make sense to me to try to avoid wash cycles between the two.

    Any clarification would be immensely appreciated. In the next couple of weeks, I'm looking to make 40 photographs in editions of 5 - I'd like to get a good system in place from the beginning.

  7. #47
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    The Darkroom Cookbook, TDC 3rd edition, suggest;
    After the developer
    - Running Water Stop 1 min
    - Fix one TF-4 1 min
    - Fix two TF-4 2min
    - Rinse in running water, 3 min
    - Selenium Tone 5 min
    - HCA /Berg Bath 5 min
    - Vertical wash 30 min
    - Sistan
    D-76 is a standard developer, although not one I use.
    Ansel Adams - The Negative

  8. #48

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    Thanks for the response, trexx.

    I'll keep that in mind for the future, but that answer doesn't help me very much in my current situation. I have enough of the Ilford chemicals to get me through this printing run and have already done quite a few test prints using them. At this point, I'd prefer not to start from scratch all over again with an entirely different set of chemicals.

    Anyone have any suggestions to my above inquiry? This is my desperate attempt to get a hard confirmation about my selenium toning questions before I start printing and potentially ruining prints.

  9. #49
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    Referring to Tim Rudman's "The Photographer's Toning Book", Dr. Rudman discusses two approaches.

    One point of observation though - each of the processes involves using a hypo-clearing agent/wash aid in one or more occasions.

    He also recommends two bath fixing, because selenium staining can arise from two potential sources:

    1) inadequate fixing; and
    2) print surfaces being acidic when placed in the selenium toner.

    The acidic condition can be avoided by ensuring "the prints are thoroughly washed, or preferably treated with hypo-clearing agent - which is alkaline" (quotation from page 46).

    The approaches:

    1) fixer, selenium toner diluted with hypo clearing agent (1 + 10 through 1 + 20 dilutions), full wash - this involves no intermediate wash, but the life of the selenium toner is limited by the severely limited life of the hypo clearing agent used for dilution; or
    2) fixer, hypo-clearing agent, full wash, selenium toner diluted with water (1 + 20 dilution), hypo-clearing agent again, full wash again.

    For the second approach, the prints can be dried after the first wash and then toned at a subsequent occasion - exactly what you are trying to avoid.

    The dilutions indicated are directed toward ensuring archival protection while minimizing colour change. With less dilution, there would be more colour change.

    Hope this helps.

    PS - Tim Rudman's Toning Book is one everybody should have.
    Matt

    “Photography is a complex and fluid medium, and its many factors are not applied in simple sequence. Rather, the process may be likened to the art of the juggler in keeping many balls in the air at one time!”

    Ansel Adams, from the introduction to The Negative - The New Ansel Adams Photography Series / Book 2

  10. #50

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    Thanks, Matt.

    One last quick question - since the life of selenium toner is limited by the severely limited life of the hypo clearing agent used for dilution ----- will the toner bath last as long as the indications on the HCA bottle say or will it's life be cut even shorter by mixing it with the toner?


    Again, thanks so much!

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