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  1. #11
    TheFlyingCamera's Avatar
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    Forte was coating the paper to Bergger's specification. The recipe for the Bergger papers may have been similar to Polywarmtone, but it was not the same. It was also definitely coated on a different paper stock- the original VCCB paper was on a 320 gsm paper stock. They have since reduced it to a 260 gsm stock, which is still heavier than most other double-weight papers, but not as special as the original.

  2. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheFlyingCamera View Post
    the original VCCB paper was on a 320 gsm paper stock. They have since reduced it to a 260 gsm stock, which is still heavier than most other double-weight papers, but not as special as the original.
    I just knew it was lighter after the original Forte debacle, a couple of years ago, but I couldn't get any confirmation. It seemed to print different to me as well... The older stuff was really premo. The newer stuff is also spectacular. It is similar to Polywarmtone, but there is enough difference for me to prefer the VCCB and even enough to barely justify the price difference even though I constantly question it.

  3. #13
    TheFlyingCamera's Avatar
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    I found out about the paper weight difference when I contacted Bergger's rep here in the US because I ordered three packs of 16x20 at considerable cost, only to find out the paper was thinner. He told me somewhat arrogantly, "It's only 20% thinner", and said I could return it for a refund to the retailer (B&H, which like most photo retailers has a no-returns-on-sensitized-products policy).

  4. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheFlyingCamera View Post
    I found out about the paper weight difference when I contacted Bergger's rep here in the US because I ordered three packs of 16x20 at considerable cost, only to find out the paper was thinner. He told me somewhat arrogantly, "It's only 20% thinner", and said I could return it for a refund to the retailer (B&H, which like most photo retailers has a no-returns-on-sensitized-products policy).
    You handle something for long enough and you really come to know it. My experience was that I pulled a sheet from the package and my fingers told me something was amiss. It's still great paper though.

    Change is good, I guesss?

  5. #15
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    TheFlyingCamera:
    "...and said I could return it for a refund to the retailer (B&H, which like most photo retailers has a no-returns-on-sensitized-products policy)."

    if B&H accept return would you return the paper and get another one, if returning cost you none?
    www.Leica-R.com

  6. #16
    TheFlyingCamera's Avatar
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    At this point, I will not, because I did test the emulsion and it was essentially unchanged, and I needed something that would print the same as my previous work, since I was printing a portfolio that needed to be consistent. My complaint at the time was not that the emulsion had changed at all - my complaint was that they reduced the paper weight, and increased the price at the same time, but never said anything about it. After that, I went on a paper chase, so to speak, trying to find a new paper that I could live with, but it turned out that I couldn't find anything else I liked as much, and came back to it.

  7. #17
    Maine-iac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JLP View Post
    Daniel,
    Very much, i believe Forte made all paper and film for Bergger. The VCCB is very close to the Forte Polywarmtone but i believe on a heavier base. Don't know about other Bergger papers, VCCB is the only one i have used and like very much.
    The only difference I've been able to tell between the Bergger and the Forte (besides, as you correctly state, a slightly heavier paper stock) is the packaging in 25 sheet boxes only with a higher price tag. It's upscale Forte.

    Larry

  8. #18
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    So what does the future hold for Bergger Prestige Fine Art Portrait (Silver Supreme)?

    I'm about to try this for this first time, but is it going to disappear?

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheFlyingCamera View Post
    (B&H, which like most photo retailers has a no-returns-on-sensitized-products policy).
    Amazingly, I recently learned that Freestyle will accept returns on papers. The woman I spoke to on the phone said, "How else are you going to figure out which paper to buy?"

    Sanders

  10. #20
    Rolleiflexible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gary Holliday View Post
    So what does the future hold for Bergger Prestige Fine Art Portrait (Silver Supreme)?

    I'm about to try this for this first time, but is it going to disappear?
    That's the $64 question. Bergger has suggested that they are seeking alternative manufacturing solutions but has revealed no hard plans yet.

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