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  1. #1
    wclavey's Avatar
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    Problem with R09

    There is probably an "I told you so..." somewhere in all this, so I am bracing myself.

    I have been using R09 to develop my Arista.EDU 100 ASA 120 film for the past few months now with no problems. I just finished my first bottle that I purchased from Freestyle and I usually develop 2 rolls at a time. I finished shooting a roll this morning and just attempted to develop this roll plus another I shot last week.

    When I took out the bottle of R09 concentrate, a dark precipitate had formed in the bottom of the bottle. I had noticed this preciptate forming the last time I used it. I looked up the threads here on APUG that talked making a Rodinal-like developer and they all commented that a precipitate would form when you mixed it and that all the precipitate would not disolve. I figured that as the R09 concentrate bottle got emptier and, this being TX where our normal inside temperature is above 80, the vapor pressure change was causing some preciptate to form. I mixed and developed as usual and there were no problems. Negatives looked great.

    So this time, the amount of precipitate was greater, I warmed the bottle in running water, shook it vigorously, and most but not all of the precipitate disolved back into solution. I mixed the developer and proceeded to develop.

    Both rolls came out absolutely blank - - completely... not a shadow or hint of anything on the film... as if I had developed 2 completely unexposed rolls (which I have done by mistake in my almost 50 years of doing this) ...so completely blank that I checked the camera and back to make sure it is working (...it is).

    So this being the first bottle of R09, my questions are something like: Obviously, whatever preciptated out was an active ingredient that was not the same once I warmed it and shook it back into solution. What should I have done? Toss the bottle and opened a new one? Any thoughts?

    Thanks.

  2. #2

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    Quote Originally Posted by wclavey View Post
    There is probably an "I told you so..." somewhere in all this, so I am bracing myself.

    I have been using R09 to develop my Arista.EDU 100 ASA 120 film for the past few months now with no problems. I just finished my first bottle that I purchased from Freestyle and I usually develop 2 rolls at a time. I finished shooting a roll this morning and just attempted to develop this roll plus another I shot last week.

    When I took out the bottle of R09 concentrate, a dark precipitate had formed in the bottom of the bottle. I had noticed this preciptate forming the last time I used it. I looked up the threads here on APUG that talked making a Rodinal-like developer and they all commented that a precipitate would form when you mixed it and that all the precipitate would not disolve. I figured that as the R09 concentrate bottle got emptier and, this being TX where our normal inside temperature is above 80, the vapor pressure change was causing some preciptate to form. I mixed and developed as usual and there were no problems. Negatives looked great.

    So this time, the amount of precipitate was greater, I warmed the bottle in running water, shook it vigorously, and most but not all of the precipitate disolved back into solution. I mixed the developer and proceeded to develop.

    Both rolls came out absolutely blank - - completely... not a shadow or hint of anything on the film... as if I had developed 2 completely unexposed rolls (which I have done by mistake in my almost 50 years of doing this) ...so completely blank that I checked the camera and back to make sure it is working (...it is).

    So this being the first bottle of R09, my questions are something like: Obviously, whatever preciptated out was an active ingredient that was not the same once I warmed it and shook it back into solution. What should I have done? Toss the bottle and opened a new one? Any thoughts?

    Thanks.
    I would toss the bottle out and open a new one. Sounds to me like your warming and shaking procedure may have oxidized the p-aminophenol.
    Tom Hoskinson
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    Everything is analog - even digital :D

  3. #3
    gainer's Avatar
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    The precipitate in Rodinal, if it is there, is white. Rodinal changes color after exposure to air, the color being red-brown. I have seen it work as new when you could not see light through the stock solution. Tom is probably right. Next time, run a piece of exposed film leader through the working solution before attempting to develop a roll. The film should turn black in 2 minutes.
    Gadget Gainer

  4. #4

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    Hi, I am having the exact same problem with R09 .

    Last two rolls of film I've finnished went totally blank after processing in R09.
    The bottle was opened and half empty for some time.. 3 months maybe more...
    Both rolls from different cameras. Now, I am confused and my next rolls are going to be developed in photolab.


    Jiri, Czech rep.


    Quote Originally Posted by wclavey View Post
    There is probably an "I told you so..." somewhere in all this, so I am bracing myself.

    I have been using R09 to develop my Arista.EDU 100 ASA 120 film for the past few months now with no problems. I just finished my first bottle that I purchased from Freestyle and I usually develop 2 rolls at a time. I finished shooting a roll this morning and just attempted to develop this roll plus another I shot last week.

    When I took out the bottle of R09 concentrate, a dark precipitate had formed in the bottom of the bottle. I had noticed this preciptate forming the last time I used it. I looked up the threads here on APUG that talked making a Rodinal-like developer and they all commented that a precipitate would form when you mixed it and that all the precipitate would not disolve. I figured that as the R09 concentrate bottle got emptier and, this being TX where our normal inside temperature is above 80, the vapor pressure change was causing some preciptate to form. I mixed and developed as usual and there were no problems. Negatives looked great.

    So this time, the amount of precipitate was greater, I warmed the bottle in running water, shook it vigorously, and most but not all of the precipitate disolved back into solution. I mixed the developer and proceeded to develop.

    Both rolls came out absolutely blank - - completely... not a shadow or hint of anything on the film... as if I had developed 2 completely unexposed rolls (which I have done by mistake in my almost 50 years of doing this) ...so completely blank that I checked the camera and back to make sure it is working (...it is).

    So this being the first bottle of R09, my questions are something like: Obviously, whatever preciptated out was an active ingredient that was not the same once I warmed it and shook it back into solution. What should I have done? Toss the bottle and opened a new one? Any thoughts?

    Thanks.

  5. #5
    AgX
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    The manufacturer states that the white precipitate could/should be filtrated.

  6. #6
    wclavey's Avatar
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    Jiri, mine had been open and a little more than half gone for about 3 months, as well (...I have been shooting more 400 speed which I develop in Microdol-X). I think I may convert my original post to an email and send it to the manufacturer to see if they have any ideas. As it is, though, I have thrown away the final concentrate and will open a new bottle next time.

  7. #7

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    I don't know I have never heard of a developer so bad it didn't give any results. Maybe it was the film. I don't believe warming a concentrate and shaking precipitate back into a liquid would make that happen.

  8. #8

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    Yes, after the first roll came out blank I thought this is a problem of a film (Ilford FP4+) , but the second one, Ilford HP5 cleared this out. Blank as well.
    I keep my rolls in a fridge, for sure they were in good condition.




    Quote Originally Posted by rtuttle View Post
    I don't know I have never heard of a developer so bad it didn't give any results. Maybe it was the film. I don't believe warming a concentrate and shaking precipitate back into a liquid would make that happen.

  9. #9

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    R09 (Calbe) and I think Fomadon R09 (also) can fail after some period of use.
    They have not an equivalent storage time than the Rodinal from Agfa/A&O.

    We started some aging test 4 years ago for Rodinal.
    Recently we compared Fomadon R09 and Rodinal:
    http://www.flickr.com/groups/rodinal...7601393747142/

  10. #10
    wclavey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fotohuis View Post
    R09 (Calbe) and I think Fomadon R09 (also) can fail after some period of use.
    They have not an equivalent storage time than the Rodinal from Agfa/A&O.

    We started some aging test 4 years ago for Rodinal.
    Recently we compared Fomadon R09 and Rodinal:
    http://www.flickr.com/groups/rodinal...7601393747142/
    I see in the link to your test that your R09 was 1.5 years old at the beginning of the test. Did any very dark brown precipitate accumulate in the bottom of the bottle during that time? I looked at it closely and it was very hard and formed into the bottom corners of the bottle and came out only with difficulty.

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