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  1. #1
    nick mulder's Avatar
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    Making my own D19 developer - advice on how to modify it for my purposes appreciated

    Hello,

    I shoot two formats mostly nowadays almost at the opposite end of the format spectrum - 16mm cine and 8x10 ...

    I do reversal developing in the 16mm and Pt/Pd contact printing with the 8x10.

    For both formats I use Kodak D19 - its great for the higher gamma needed for Pd prints and is listed as a good substitute for D94 in the 16mm world - However, as my supply is running low and I dont want to order from overseas any longer I want to mix my own with chems bought here - the mix is as follows:

    Water at 50°C (125°F): 500 ml
    Elon (Kodak's name for Metol): 2.0g
    Sodium sulfite, anhydrous: 90.0g
    Hydroquinone: 8.0g
    Sodium carbonate, monohydrated: 52.5g
    Potassium bromide, anhydrous: 5.0g
    Add water to make 1L


    Since I am investing some time into make this myself I thought it would be prudent to find out what each component of the mixture does and what the effects on film would be with addition of extra or less of these components... A sort of reverse engineer if you will

    Any knowledge appreciated!

    the reversal developing says I good putting in sodium thiocyanate - as I have been doing... what does this do also ?

    thanks,
    Nick
    Cleared the bowel problem, working on the consonants...

  2. #2
    Ian Grant's Avatar
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    Nick, D-19 has a variant D19b which is the same as Ilford ID-19, the PQ - phenidone variant is ID-72.

    I would suggest looking at a comparison of some Ilford developer formulae and their uses would give you a lot of insight into how variations of the proportion of the components produce developers for differering purposes.

    I'll add a table later today.

    Ian

  3. #3
    nick mulder's Avatar
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    I have some phenidone here to play with also - have been meaning to try a POTA developer for a while now, but haven't had a shoot I can experiment with and compare the results easily (telecine of 16mm).

    Maybe I will try some 120 in it.

    Thanks for the info Ian - I'll look into those developers.

    D19 is often specified as an 'aerial/scientific' film developer...

    What were 'aerial films' exactly ? I'm guessing they used them for aerial photography (?) but more to the point what were the characteristics that required D19/ID-19 etc... ?

    With 24deg (its hot upstairs here) standard solution I'm getting good Pt/Pd negs in 20mins tray dev near on constant agitation with Bergger BPF200 btw ...
    Cleared the bowel problem, working on the consonants...

  4. #4
    Ian Grant's Avatar
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    OK Nick, here's the comparison chart as promised, its only a few of the total published.



    Ilford Developers Higher resolution

    You will see the main developer types:

    ID-2 MQ ID 67 PQ Universal film & paper developers

    ID-3 M only Soft working developer for films or papers

    ID-20 MQ ID-62 PQ Film & Paper developer (fine grain if used quite dilute).

    ID-11 MQ ID-68 PQ (Microphen) Fine grain film developers

    ID-19 MQ ID-72 PQ Clean working Industrial, Aerial photography, x-ray developer.

    ID-14 Contrast developer, for films and papers.

    Of course Ilford have published many other formulae, using other developing agent etc but these give you something to start with, all companies produced a similar range of developers. The commercial version of D19 is more likely to be closer to the D19b variant.

  5. #5
    nick mulder's Avatar
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    The comparison between ID-19 and ID-14 is interesting - I'll try some A/B comparisons between the two (once I have compared D19 and D19b)

    Maybe the ID-72PQ as I already have phenidone here and can scratch ordering the metol

    Again though, just out of interest> what does 'Clean working Industrial' mean in terms of subjective qualities in the final print ? I know I have plenty of examples here as its what I have been using, but I am not very good at reading differences in developed negs with nothing 'standard' to compare them with (like the same neg in D76 for instance)

    Thanks for the chart, its a pretty good starting point ! It really shows there are some pretty standard chemicals when it comes to the Metol/Hydroquinone developers - I'll try to find out what each of the components do, like Sodium Sulphite is there in every one, it must do something vital ...
    Cleared the bowel problem, working on the consonants...

  6. #6

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    As I recall D-19 is a "clean-working industrial developer" because it produces very little fog and is a higher-contrast developer. It probably is paired with aerial films because aerial photographers are always fighting haze, so fog on the film base is counterproductive. I used it in school with Tri-X Ortho film to make shadowgraphs of bullets in flight. It does produce very little fog.

    Peter Gomena

  7. #7
    nick mulder's Avatar
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    Righto, ok with my understanding of how gamma works I can see how base fog would be an issue if high contrast was desired - As it turns out this is exactly the effect I am after and can see in the neg ...



    I've read that the similar effect in HC-110 (which is compared to D19) is due to a strong 'restrainer' - which chemical component is the restrainer ?
    Cleared the bowel problem, working on the consonants...

  8. #8

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    PotaIn Kodak Developer D19, the Restrainer is Potassium Bromide

    Quote Originally Posted by nick mulder View Post
    Righto, ok with my understanding of how gamma works I can see how base fog would be an issue if high contrast was desired - As it turns out this is exactly the effect I am after and can see in the neg ...



    I've read that the similar effect in HC-110 (which is compared to D19) is due to a strong 'restrainer' - which chemical component is the restrainer ?
    In Kodak Developer D19 recipe, the Restrainer is Potassium Bromide. I don't have the HC110 recipe (it is closely held by Kodak).
    Last edited by Tom Hoskinson; 10-07-2007 at 07:04 PM. Click to view previous post history. Reason: Tried to correct the typo in the title -but failed
    Tom Hoskinson
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  9. #9

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    Here are the recipes for Kodak D-19, Kodak D-19b and Agfa 80. Sheet 1 and Sheet 2 of the attached Excel File.

    You will notice that both Kodak D-19b and Agfa 80 have less Potassium Bromide and less Sodium Sulfite than Kodak D-19. Agfa 80 uses 60 grams/liter of Potassium Carbonate vs 48 grams/liter of Sodium Carbonate in Kodak D-19.

    You could add some Benzotriazole solution to any of these developers. Benzotriazole is an organic restrainer and will decrease fog and also decrease Effective Film Speed.
    Attached Files
    Tom Hoskinson
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  10. #10

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    Potassium Bromide is the Restrainer in D-19

    Here are the recipes for Kodak D-19, Kodak D-19b and Agfa 80. Sheet 1 and Sheet 2 of the attached Excel File.

    You will notice that both Kodak D-19b and Agfa 80 have less Potassium Bromide and less Sodium Sulfite than Kodak D-19. Agfa 80 uses 60 grams/liter of Potassium Carbonate vs 48 grams/liter of Sodium Carbonate in Kodak D-19.

    You could add some Benzotriazole solution to any of these developers. Benzotriazole is an organic restrainer and will decrease fog and also decrease Effective Film Speed.
    Tom Hoskinson
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