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  1. #11
    craigclu's Avatar
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    I get mine from JD but thought I'd add.... I once tried swimming pool antifreeze that stated 100% PG. It had a faint blue dye in it that seemed to be the only likely difference. I never got consistent results with the stuff, though and my only other use is for mixing a bit with distilled water for use in my humidors as a cigar aid.
    Craig Schroeder

  2. #12
    Murray@uptowngallery's Avatar
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    I haven't found a better price than The Chemistry Store, that's certain.

    Also found Dow Chemical/Union Carbide's amines data today and it was interesting that they have three different types of TEA: various % of TEA, DEA & water. One is 99% TEA. I don't imagine those are the same class/grade.
    Murray

  3. #13
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
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    Your TEA and PG should be free of water and your TEA should have NO DEA or the pH will be too high!

    Have fun with chemistry but look out for PG with dye in it. It can stain film and paper. Also, don't heat it over the flash point. This has been covered elsewhere. The instructions given by some, suggest heating PG, but the fumes can ignite if they come into contact with a flame or exceed the flash point.

    PE

  4. #14
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    The Dow site shows charts of pH as a function of water content for two grades of TEA, DEA and MEA. Even if you want the high pH of MEA, read carefully ALL of its characteristics. The two grades of TEA differ mostly in their DEA content. If you are using one of my recipes, get the 99% grade because that's what I used.

    I suggest you get a candy thermometer and keep track of temperature. There is no chemical reaction reason for high temperature. It is physical chemistry. TEA can freeze at room temperature, and it can also supercool, but in any case, it is very viscous where you are most comfortable, which means it will take a looong time to dissolve anything with only stirring. Read up on flashpoint. Wikipedia has a detailed discussion. A double boiler with water in the bottom should keep things at a safe level if the head of the house will allow it. You may have to get one of your own.
    Gadget Gainer

  5. #15
    Murray@uptowngallery's Avatar
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    Well, I guess I don't need to make concentrates, then. Too much unpleasantry with the heat.

    Water works for the acetaminophen and coffee-based developers.

    For Phenidone, maybe I'll try a little bit of low-hydrous or anhydrous alcohol.

    I think that's my comfort level with hazards. I did all my crazier stuff when I was 50% younger. Done with that.
    Murray

  6. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Murray@uptowngallery View Post
    Well, I guess I don't need to make concentrates, then. Too much unpleasantry with the heat.
    There is no need to mix developer concentrates at high temperatures - 80 to 90 degrees F (i.e. a water bath) works fine.

    [/QUOTE]Water works for the acetaminophen and coffee-based developers. [/QUOTE]

    Actually, Water and an alkali - like sodium carbonate (washing Soda)

    But first you need to chemically react the acetaminophen with alkali and water to get P-Aminophenol (the stuff you really want).

    [/QUOTE]I think that's my comfort level with hazards. I did all my crazier stuff when I was 50% younger. Done with that.[/QUOTE]

    Murray: I suggest signing up for a beginning chemistry course at your local community college - or use ready mixed photographic chemistry.
    Tom Hoskinson
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  7. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Murray@uptowngallery View Post
    I think that's my comfort level with hazards. I did all my crazier stuff when I was 50% younger. Done with that.
    "A man's got to know his limitations." Dirty Harry Callahan, Magnum Force (1973)

    I appreciate when someone is willing to voice this view.

    While the basics of lab chemistry can be learned, it does take some effort and time. If you're not comfortable handling some of these chemicals, it's best to take this approach.

  8. #18
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    Hi Murray,
    Look in the business pages under industrial chemicals or lab chemicals. I am in Milwaukee and have 5 or 6 sources where I can pick up pure solvents at cheap prices..Evan Clarke

  9. #19
    Murray@uptowngallery's Avatar
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    I had inorganic & organic chem in high school then inorganic in college (decades ago). Still taking classes, too, but only what I need and what's required...no room or time for the luxury of review (or photography) or past classes at this time :O(

    I'm just drawing the line on which process hazards I want to expose myself to. Maybe I came across as clueless. A certain group of chemicals are unavoidable (necessary).

    It is helpful to read anecdotal experiences to the effect of 'warm water bath suffices'.

    Evan, thanks. I gave up too soon yesterday on the web with too many ad-bot generated links that didn't have what the link/name said.

    I must have looked at 10 sites that had Michigan Chemical Supplier or similar in their name that were everywhere from North Carolina to Canada (?!?)....not to mention eBay and NexTag BS.
    Last edited by Murray@uptowngallery; 01-05-2008 at 10:33 AM. Click to view previous post history.
    Murray

  10. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Murray@uptowngallery View Post
    I had inorganic & organic chem in high school then inorganic in college (decades ago). Still taking classes, too, but only what I need and what's required...no room or time for the luxury of review (or photography) or past classes at this time :O(

    I'm just drawing the line on which process hazards I want to expose myself to. Maybe I came across as clueless. A certain group of chemicals are unavoidable (necessary).

    It is helpful to read anecdotal experiences to the effect of 'warm water bath suffices'.

    Evan, thanks. I gave up too soon yesterday on the web with too many ad-bot generated links that didn't have what the link/name said.

    I must have looked at 10 sites that had Michigan Chemical Supplier or similar in their name that were everywhere from North Carolina to Canada (?!?)....not to mention eBay and NexTag BS.
    Murray, I have successfully mixed a lot (many liters) of developing chemistry and developer stock concentrates in Propylene Glycol and Triethanolamine or combinations of these 2 solvents - using either a warm water bath or my lab's ambient temperature to keep the mixture between 80 and 90 degrees F.

    Examples include concentrated stock solutions of Phenidone, Pyrogallol, Catechol, Hydroquinone, Glycin and Amidol

    Also includes Pyrocat-HD,Solution A,Pyrocat-P, Solution A, Pyrocat-MC Solution A, Instant Mytol and Ansco 130-TEA.

    No developing chemistry failures yet...
    Tom Hoskinson
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    Everything is analog - even digital :D

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