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  1. #1
    craigclu's Avatar
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    DS-10 Starting Times List

    I converted the Xtol to DS-10 starting times some time ago and recently had a request for the info. I thought I might just post it in case someone else might find it handy. Ryuji had found that at the pH that DS-10 came to, it required about 20% more time than Xtol. I took the Xtol list and adjusted it for quick reference for my own use but it might prove useful for others as a good starting point.
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    Last edited by craigclu; 10-14-2007 at 12:11 PM. Click to view previous post history. Reason: typo
    Craig Schroeder

  2. #2
    Ian Grant's Avatar
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    Craig first you have to tell us what DS10 is, I can only find the formulae for: DS2, DS3, DS6, DS8, DS 14, DS15, DS17, DS25 and DS29.

    Is there any reason to use any of the Dufaycolor developers with modern films, Dufaycolor is an additive mosaic type film so the emulsion is B&W :-)

    Or is it a new formula ?

    Ian

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    H Ian !
    Have a look at the Silvergrain Wiki maintained by Ryuji Suzuki inventor of DS-10 (formula on this page : http://silvergrain.org/wiki/index.ph...ecommendations )
    and Silvergrain products sold by Digital Truth.

  4. #4
    CBG
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    I'd be interested in formulae for DS2, DS3, DS6, DS8, DS 14, DS15, DS17, DS25 and DS29. And any incedental info - who originated, purpose etc...

    Thanks!

    C

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    Ian Grant's Avatar
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    Thanks George, found it now. It's very strange to use a designation (DS) that's already been used by a company in the past and who's formulae are in the public domain.

    Looking at the Silvergrain website it appears DS10 is not recommended for a number of films, to quote:

    Caution for DS-10 users
    DO NOT USE DS-10 with:

    * APX25, APX100
    * Pan F Plus
    * Lucky 100 speed


    and also:

    The problem with DS-10 and many films of box speed 100 or slower is very distorted sensitometric curves, loss of speed, and often with low density. The developer is adjusted to develop slowly, with suitably adjusted level of solvency, so that the developed silver grains consist of compact filaments rather than widely spanning filaments typical of coarse grain developers. However, this strategy doesn't work well with the way slower emulsions are made.

    I would note that if it's not recommended for Luck 100 then it's probably not a good idea to use with Tmax 100 either as the emulsions are very similar.

    Ryuji has mades these comments about the developer. So in doing so he's saying it's not an all round developer like Xtol, and therefore Craig's spreadsheet unfortunately contains a lot of information that is invalid. ?

    Ian
    Last edited by Ian Grant; 10-14-2007 at 03:44 PM. Click to view previous post history. Reason: too many to's

  6. #6
    Ian Grant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CBG View Post
    I'd be interested in formulae for DS2, DS3, DS6, DS8, DS 14, DS15, DS17, DS25 and DS29. And any incedental info - who originated, purpose etc...
    Hi C

    These formulae were published regularly by the British Journal of Photography, in their Photographic Almanac's. They are the various developers etc required for processing Dufaycolor.

    The Dufay process goes back to 1908 and was still in use whe I first held a camera :-)

    On first appearance the formulae might appear to be of no modern use, Dufaycolor was an additive system, but because it used a B&W emulsion the formulae could easily be adapted for reversal processing of modern B&W film.

    I'm fairly sure there's a chapter about Dufay colour in D.A. Spencer's "Colour Photography, possibly with colour example.

    At some stage I'll post them on APUG.

    Ian

  7. #7

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    DS-10

    Quote Originally Posted by craigclu View Post
    I converted the Xtol to DS-10 starting times some time ago and recently had a request for the info. I thought I might just post it in case someone else might find it handy. Ryuji had found that at the pH that DS-10 came to, it required about 20% more time than Xtol. I took the Xtol list and adjusted it for quick reference for my own use but it might prove useful for others as a good starting point.
    Wow! Thats some list, thankyou for posting the information, did you ever try DS-2 or DS-12?

  8. #8
    CBG
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Grant View Post
    Hi C

    These formulae were published regularly by the British Journal of Photography, in their Photographic Almanac's. They are the various developers etc required for processing Dufaycolor.

    The Dufay process goes back to 1908 and was still in use whe I first held a camera :-)

    On first appearance the formulae might appear to be of no modern use, Dufaycolor was an additive system, but because it used a B&W emulsion the formulae could easily be adapted for reversal processing of modern B&W film.

    I'm fairly sure there's a chapter about Dufay colour in D.A. Spencer's "Colour Photography, possibly with colour example.

    At some stage I'll post them on APUG.

    Ian
    I'll be on the lookout.

    Thanks!

    C

  9. #9
    craigclu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Grant View Post

    Ryuji has mades these comments about the developer. So in doing so he's saying it's not an all round developer like Xtol, and therefore Craig's spreadsheet unfortunately contains a lot of information that is invalid. ?

    Ian
    You're likely correct.... The spreadsheet simply contains the normal time adjustment applied to the Xtol list. I actually never thought of using the developer with those films and hadn't really thought about it until your comment. The appropriate films listed should have a decent starting times listed for initial trials, though. I had good results with HP5+, Delta 400 and Acros when I was using the developer.

    Is there a likely method of storage for Dimezone-S that might extend its dry shelf life? I had a batch of DS-14 show little activity and then 2 batches of DS-10 and I blamed it on the Dimezone-S as the other components were acting normally in other things.
    Craig Schroeder

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by craigclu View Post
    You're likely correct.... The spreadsheet simply contains the normal time adjustment applied to the Xtol list. I actually never thought of using the developer with those films and hadn't really thought about it until your comment. The appropriate films listed should have a decent starting times listed for initial trials, though. I had good results with HP5+, Delta 400 and Acros when I was using the developer.

    Is there a likely method of storage for Dimezone-S that might extend its dry shelf life? I had a batch of DS-14 show little activity and then 2 batches of DS-10 and I blamed it on the Dimezone-S as the other components were acting normally in other things.
    Craig, Phenidone is readily soluble in Propylene Glycol. I have a 500ml bottle of Phenidone/Propylene Glycol stock solution in my darkroom that I mixed in 2004. It is still fully active.

    Perhaps Dimezone-S is also soluble in Propylene Glycol.
    Tom Hoskinson
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