Switch to English Language Passer en langue française Omschakelen naar Nederlandse Taal Wechseln Sie zu deutschen Sprache Passa alla lingua italiana
Members: 71,466   Posts: 1,570,713   Online: 996
      
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 20
  1. #1

    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Luxembourg
    Shooter
    35mm RF
    Posts
    30

    Ilford Multigrad FB and Ilford Warm-Cool-Tone developers

    I am a little bit disappointed by the Ilford MG FB papers which gives me too neutral grey tones. I develop in Ilford Multigrade developer 1+9 for 3 min. Does anyone have experience with this paper and the Ilford Warm- and Cool tone developers ? Do they allow to get deeper blacks and white highlights ?

    Any feedback is welcome.

  2. #2
    phaedrus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Waltershausen, Thuringia, Germany
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    463
    Images
    11
    I don't know about deeper blacks, but developing MG FB paper in Cool- and then Warmtone developers (for 2 minutes, respectively) used to give me the duotone effect I was after. Unfortunately, they discontinued Cooltone developer recently. Guess I'll replace it with a Moersch developer.

  3. #3
    phaedrus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Waltershausen, Thuringia, Germany
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    463
    Images
    11
    Oh, and one more thing: selenium-toning will significantly increase your print's Dmax. But you knew that already, I suppose.
    So long, Christoph

  4. #4

    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Daventry, Northamptonshire, England
    Shooter
    35mm
    Posts
    7,105
    This is going to sound negative but if you haven't got blacks and white highlights are you sure that your exposure and more importantly your grade is right?

    I have used Cooltone and before that "normal" B&W developer( Nova Darkroom's own) and while the Cooltone paper in Cooltone developer was colder to look at than Ilford Multigrade in Nova developer it didn't really make the blacks blacker and the whites whiter. An overall greyness strongly suggests that the contrast grade is too low.

    My paper was RC and not FB but that shouldn't make a difference. Otherwise switching to RC would cure the problem and few would use FB paper.

    Might help if you attach a print that you are not satisfied with.

    pentaxuser

  5. #5

    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Luxembourg
    Shooter
    35mm RF
    Posts
    30
    Thanks for the info.
    I am a little bit surprised as you are the only having replied to this thread. It seems as the Ilford warm and cooltone developers are not very popular among the darkroom printers. The only test of these developers I found was the one by Mike Crawford in the March 2006 issue of B&W Photography. The latter was however of no great use to me. I posted the same thread in the German APHOG.DE, but I got absolutely no reply at all. Strange, isn't it ?!!

    By the way which Moersch developer will you use to replace the Ilford Cooltone.

  6. #6

    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Luxembourg
    Shooter
    35mm RF
    Posts
    30
    Quote Originally Posted by pentaxuser View Post
    This is going to sound negative but if you haven't got blacks and white highlights are you sure that your exposure and more importantly your grade is right?

    I have used Cooltone and before that "normal" B&W developer( Nova Darkroom's own) and while the Cooltone paper in Cooltone developer was colder to look at than Ilford Multigrade in Nova developer it didn't really make the blacks blacker and the whites whiter. An overall greyness strongly suggests that the contrast grade is too low.

    My paper was RC and not FB but that shouldn't make a difference. Otherwise switching to RC would cure the problem and few would use FB paper.

    Might help if you attach a print that you are not satisfied with.

    pentaxuser
    Exposure is OK. Grade is determined by the Heiland SplitGrade which is 100% accurate used on a Kienzle 6x9 and an APO Rodagon 90. The RC version of the paper gives much better tones. But I want to print on FB, especially Ilford MG as I have quite lot of this paper in stock. But anyway, I think a lot of people are disappointed with it in the FB version.
    Which combination of FB paper & developper do you use ?

  7. #7
    Stoo Batchelor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Hertfordshire, England
    Shooter
    Medium Format
    Posts
    1,237
    Images
    42
    [QUOTE=sgoetzin;Grade is determined by the Heiland SplitGrade which is 100% accurate

    I do not mean to sound disrespectful, but I find it a bit strange that you should trust a machine or whatever one of them is. Your good old fashioned eyes will tell you weather you have got the grade right or wrong.

    I use Ilford MG4 Matt with great success, deep blacks and fine whites. Both achieved in almost all developers I have used, including Ilford Warmtone. Other Photographers here on APUG, whos work I have seen printed on Iford MG4 and developed in Ilfords Warmtone(and coldtone), literally sing. with the most exsquisite blacks you will ever see, and tones right through the range, right up to the brightest highlight. Leon Taylors work comes to mind.

    Chuck your gizmo in the bin, or at least trust it with caution, go back in the darkroom with a box of fresh paper. Do a test strip and work from there, using you heart and eyes as your tools to determine exposure.

    Subtract your dry down factor, and I am sure that you will come out of the darkroom singing and dancing.

    Good Luck

    Regards

    Stoo
    Last edited by Stoo Batchelor; 11-11-2007 at 06:05 PM. Click to view previous post history.
    _____________________________________________

  8. #8

    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Luxembourg
    Shooter
    35mm RF
    Posts
    30
    [QUOTE=Stoo Batchelor;544440][QUOTE=sgoetzin;Grade is determined by the Heiland SplitGrade which is 100% accurate

    I do not mean to sound disrespectful, but I find it a bit strange that you should trust a machine or whatever one of them is. Your good old fashioned eyes will tell you weather you have got the grade right or wrong.

    I use Ilford MG4 Matt with great success, deep blacks and fine whites. Both achieved in almost all developers I have used, including Ilford Warmtone. Other Photographers here on APUG, whos work I have seen printed on Iford MG4 and developed in Ilfords Warmtone(and coldtone), literally sing. with the most exsquisite blacks you will ever see, and tones right through the range, right up to the brightest highlight. Leon Taylors work comes to mind.

    Chuck your gizmo in the bin, or at least trust it with caution, go back in the darkroom with a box of fresh paper. Do a test strip and work from there, using you heart and eyes as your tools to determine exposure.

    Subtract your dry down factor, and I am sure that you will come out of the darkroom singing and dancing.

    Good Luck

    Regards

    Stoo[/QUOTE]

    Thanks for you reply. I agree with you that a machine should never be trusted blindely.
    But to clarify my point : I know how to deal with the results the Heiland splitgrade returns as I already run 100 of test for a specific film, developer and paper combinations. I use it as an interface and I know how to analyse correctly my negatif by leaving out some parts during the measurement.

    By the way, which developer, film combinations do you use for Ilford MG FB to get those wonderful black and white tones that makes your prints sing ?
    I only used Multigrade developer for Ilford MG FB, maybe that's the problem ??!!

  9. #9
    Stoo Batchelor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Hertfordshire, England
    Shooter
    Medium Format
    Posts
    1,237
    Images
    42
    Hi

    firstly, thanks for not taking offence when reading my answer, it did read as if I was being rather arrogant, it was not intended that way.

    I always use a warmtone developer. I settled with Tetenal Variospeed W (the w stands for warm) Prior to this I was using Ilford's Warmtone developer. I found that there was no difference in both developers when it comes to the look of the final print. The change was just down to the fact that the Ilford developer leaves a brown residue in my Nova slot processor.

    My film is almost always Ilford Delta 100 developed in a staining developer, usually Prescysol ef, though I am experimenting at the moment.

    One thought, you mentioned earlier that R.C paper had better tonality than the F.B paper. This leads me to believe that you may have a problem with your dry down factor. It is known that the surface of F.B will dry out with more vigour than its R.C sister paper, not a great deal, but it could be enough for your highlights to loose their sparkle. When that happens, your whole print will end up looking muddy and flat.

    I hope this helps.

    Regards

    Stoo

    [QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by sgoetzin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Stoo Batchelor View Post

    By the way, which developer, film combinations do you use for Ilford MG FB to get those wonderful black and white tones that makes your prints sing ?
    I only used Multigrade developer for Ilford MG FB, maybe that's the problem ??!!
    Last edited by Stoo Batchelor; 11-12-2007 at 06:38 AM. Click to view previous post history.
    _____________________________________________

  10. #10

    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Chicago, Western Suburbs
    Shooter
    4x5 Format
    Posts
    1,453
    Dear sgoetzin,

    If I read your initial post correctly, you are looking for a "colder" looking paper. I have always felt that Ilford multigrade was slightly warm for my tastes as well. Try the Kentmere product. To my eye it's a bit cooler.

    Neal Wydra

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast


 

APUG PARTNERS EQUALLY FUNDING OUR COMMUNITY:



Contact Us  |  Support Us!  |  Advertise  |  Site Terms  |  Archive  —   Search  |  Mobile Device Access  |  RSS  |  Facebook  |  Linkedin