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  1. #11
    Andy K's Avatar
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    Unless you are running a commercial set up, I'd say that at nigh on £600 it is an unnecessary luxury.


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    Anáil nathrach, ortha bháis is beatha, do chéal déanaimh.

  2. #12
    Mick Fagan's Avatar
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    Ann, that machine has been around for a while in Germany and The Netherlands, it has never been cheap.

    Neither has any "Bought New" Jobo machine or part, ever been cheap either.

    I have a friend in Germany who has one, with which he develops 4x5 in. Apparently it processes his 4x5 film, as flawlessly as his previous Jobo rotary machine.

    Quite a few people these days don't actually make darkroom prints it seems, so a small footprint machine which can be stored in a cupboard alongside a film developing tank and reel(s), may make sense to them.

    It does use a lot of chemicals compared to a Jobo, though!

    Mick.

  3. #13
    ath
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    Quote Originally Posted by ann View Post
    I wouldn't use one as i like the process of doing it by hand; however, perhaps the gentlemen who owns RHdisigns and is a business advertister here at APUG will be glad to give you a reason for the invention and price point.
    Personally I don't have the need for one; but if you want to develop in a tank with inversions and for whatever reason have rather long develoment times (pushing or highly diluted rodinal), this one is handy. Esp. if time is money.

    The inventor and manufacturer is, btw. not RH Designs, but Heiland Electronic from Germany. They are the manufacturer of the splitgrade module as well.

    For the price - this is a new design and highly flexible. Everythin can be programmed and adjusted. Things like this need a lot of development, electronics, software and tools for the housing. This translates in a huge amount of money and time needed.
    Since these guys do this for a living, the money has to come in via the sales price. The excellent support from them is for free.
    Regards,
    Andreas

  4. #14
    RH Designs's Avatar
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    Well yes, I have sold a few and people are happy with them - at least I assume they are as I've not had much in the way of feedback. It is expensive but our price is similar to that at which Heiland Electronic GmbH (the designer and manufacturer) sells them in Germany.

    It is really intended for use in a communal darkroom such as a college or photo club where it can be used by a number of people. Programs can be stored on memory sticks so each user can have his or her own. It is a beautifully engineered product which will probably last for ever and that is reflected in the price - I wouldn't be surprised if it's hand hewn from solid . It's completely programmable for inversion times, frequency, stand time etc and will provide a high level of consistency from film to film - something that users of hand tanks might find occasionally troublesome if the phone rings in the middle of development for example!

    I'm not going to pretend that it's a necessity for everyone's darkroom any more than a Rolls-Royce is to take the kids to school; you pays your money, you takes your choice, but sometimes it's nice to be able to indulge .
    Regards,
    Richard.

    RH Designs - My Photography

  5. #15
    Dave Miller's Avatar
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    I want to indulge, but must get another Roller for the wife first.
    Regards Dave.

    An English Eye


  6. #16
    Peter Black's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RH Designs View Post
    It's completely programmable for inversion times, frequency, stand time etc and will provide a high level of consistency from film to film - something that users of hand tanks might find occasionally troublesome if the phone rings in the middle of development for example!
    Hi Richard and please don't think I was being critical of you or your company, in fact quite the opposite! I appreciate that this particular device is a bit expensive for the sole user, but I'm generally impressed with the concept behind it, especially now that the onset of arthritis means it isn't so easy to agitate a Paterson tank with one hand.

    I genuinely meant that there might be a market for a cheaper (build your own?) device that would give the 2 different motions available with the Jobo and the Orbital, and if you wanted to build the device or supply kits then who can guess what the demand might be? (just ignore the stand/semi-stand crew smiling smugly at the back!)

  7. #17
    Andy K's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RH Designs View Post
    . It's completely programmable for inversion times, frequency, stand time etc and will provide a high level of consistency from film to film - something that users of hand tanks might find occasionally troublesome if the phone rings in the middle of development for example!
    No offence Richard, but when I am developing, both phone and door get ignored.


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    Anáil nathrach, ortha bháis is beatha, do chéal déanaimh.

  8. #18
    Stephen Frizza's Avatar
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    ok im just curious has anyone used one of these? how does it tap for air bubbles? when i process by hand and agitate with inverses i always tap the tank to make sure air is not trapped on the film surface. could this machine have an issue with that? Ive no experience with this device im curious over it.

  9. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stephen Frizza View Post
    ok im just curious has anyone used one of these? how does it tap for air bubbles? when i process by hand and agitate with inverses i always tap the tank to make sure air is not trapped on the film surface. could this machine have an issue with that? Ive no experience with this device im curious over it.
    It doesn't tap. The instructions suggest that you tap once and once only at the start then the machine does the rest. No different to Jobo in that respect. I usually tap every time I stop inverting but this is probably completely unnecessary. I just feel better for it.

    I am amazed that there are enough clubs still using film developing equipment often enough to make it sell in sufficient quantities. Colleges tend to have each student manually do his own. If there are 20 students on a course all with a film to develop that day/evening then to free them to get on with other things the college is going to need a lot of machines and a big budget. Maybe there aren't enough sales which helps explain the high price. Insufficient economies of scale.

    Unless there is something better about inversion than rotation most people who want to switch something on and leave it will use their Jobo rather than spend this kind of money, I would have thought.


    I go back to my analogy with the Dragon's Den. This is a TV programme where hopeful entrepreneurs try and convince business people to invest in the idea and have to explain cost, projected sales etc.

    I have a feeling that this idea would never have got any backing there. Still, best of luck to Heiland if they have got enough demand, Good job everyone isn't like me or it seems like the respondents so far.

    Maybe we should run a poll on APUG asking how many intend to buy? I think it would make depressing reading for Heiland

    pentaxuser

  10. #20
    David Brown's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by srs5694 View Post
    When I took debate in high school, a "squirrel" (not a gerbil, I'm afraid) was a debate argument that was difficult to counter because it was so ridiculous that you didn't have the references handy to prove it was ridiculous. IIRC, the name emerged from a debate in which one side claimed that squirrels in exercise cages could generate significant amounts of electricity.
    I taught high school in the 1970s and one of my privileges was judging debate. There was a freshman who developed a case on alternative energy sources in which the energy source was fog. It was so ridiculous that his partner refused to debate it with him. So, he debated it by himself and won on points.

    Sorry to be off topic, but I couldn't pass this up.

    As for the subject of the original post - I want one!!!!

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