Switch to English Language Passer en langue française Omschakelen naar Nederlandse Taal Wechseln Sie zu deutschen Sprache Passa alla lingua italiana
Members: 70,685   Posts: 1,548,560   Online: 1216
      
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 11

Thread: Rodinal

  1. #1

    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    963
    This topic is a follow up to my WD2D+ thread about a month ago.

    Then, I compared 5x7 Tri-x in WD2D+ and D76 1:1. Results - D76 did a credible job. it delivered an 11x14 print with better tonal range than WD2D+, but the WD2D+ print was sharper, if grainer in appearance.

    I surmised that Rodinal might provide better sharpness and edge effect than D76 while being more suitable than a pyro developer in a rotary processor.

    The test:
    I shot several sheets of 5x7 of Tri-x of a high contrast scene (low reading of 9, high reading of 16 with a Zone VI meter) with a yellow/green filter (since I would normally use this filter for this type of scene). I exposed all sheets at 1/4 sec f22 1/2. I developed in D76 1:1, Rodinal 1:50 and Rollo Pyro. I developed single sheets at a time in a Jobo expert tank, in a liter of developer.

    Best development times (as picked by me with all the usual disclaimers) were identical for both developers: 6 min at 68F. I used a 5 min presoak, processor speed of "3", and timed for a long 6 min, i.e., didn't start timing until the liter of developer had emptied into the drum. I started dumping the developer at minus 15 sec to completion.

    Negs were printed on Bergger warm tone variable contrast paper. no dodging or burning. All negs were printed as optimally as I could and required minimal changes to the enlarger filtration (0 filtration for Rodinal neg up to 15Y for the pyro neg).

    Results:
    Little difference between D76 and Rodinal. From a normal viewing distance (2 feet) the D76 print looked slightly smoother and the Rodinal looked slightly harder (bad descriptive words, I know). Resolution (compared off small car license plates in the scene) was identical. For all practical purposes there was no discernable "edge effect" in the Rodinal print. In the Jobo, at least, there was no reason to pick one developer over the other.

    Rollo Pyro: after all the bad things I said about it (mostly uneven staining), this was the big surprise. This print had better shadow detail, better highlight detail, better local contrast and was noticibly sharper than the D76 or Rodinal prints. The staining of the Tri-x negative looked very even, though I didn't have a large section of clear blue sky to examine closely. BTW, I also developed this for 6 min at 68F.

    Conclusions:
    Tri-x should always be developed for 6 min in a jobo, no matter what developer you use (just kidding&#33

    I normally expose 2 sheets of each scene I take so that I can develop longer/shorter if I've misjudged my development time. From now on I'll develop one sheet in D76 1:1 (as my safety shot) and one sheet in Rollo Pyro, until I'm sure that uneven staining is not a problem. Other than this remaining question, the Rollo Pyro yielded a superior print, in comparison to the other two. Haven't tried it yet, but based on experience, the pryo neg also looks like it would provide a beautiful print on AZO grade 2.

    Further Investigation:
    I also developed 1 sheet of EFKE 100 in Rodinal. My 7 min development time was a little long and the neg had a bit too much density in the whites of the scene. But, the detail resolution was better than the Tri-x pyro print. Does this mean that my LF lens, a 300mm Apo-Symmar, actually outresolves Tri-x? Doesn't seem possible, but I know I have to try the EFKE in pyro.

    Another pleasant surprise was the nice print tones I achieved with Fuji Acros in Rodinal, better than I got with Agfa APX100 in Rodinal. This combination might be a good choice in smaller formats. I'm going to try it in 35mm.


  2. #2
    glbeas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Roswell, Ga. USA
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    3,307
    Images
    109
    Edge effects in developers tend to disappear when agitation is constant. To try the ultimate edge effect look into the technique of stand developing. The edge effects happen from fresher developer diffusing past a low density area into a higher density area and being fresher than the stuff already there due to less used up where it came from it causes an increase in density along that border in the higher density area. So you can see that agitation reduces the opportunity for this to happen.
    With stand developing a highly diluted developer like Rodinal is used and the times extended up to and beyond an hour, agitating only at the outset to disrupt any bubbles clinging to the film. Some films don't work well with this, streaking from sprocket holes is a common malady.
    Gary Beasley

  3. #3
    Eric Rose's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Calgary AB, Canada
    Shooter
    4x5 Format
    Posts
    4,259
    Images
    73
    Tom I would be interested in your analysis of PyroCat-HD against your tests done to date. Have you tried it? I developed it in both a tank (MF) and Beseler drum (LF) and both looked great.
    www.ericrose.com
    yourbaddog.com

    "civility is not a sign of weakness" JFK

    "The Dude abides" - the Dude

  4. #4

    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    South Pasadena, CA USA
    Posts
    470
    Tom,

    Now you're talking. When you are able to do your test on #2 Azo, I would be very interested in hearing how it goes, since Rollo/Azo is my most common combination, although I have had a hard time getting enough contrast in a neg to make #2 work well.

    dgh

    David G Hall

  5. #5

    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    South Pasadena, CA USA
    Posts
    470
    Tom,

    Also, if you were every to do a test comparint WD2D, PMK, Rollo and ABC in addition to Rodinal or D76 the conventional developers, THAT would be pretty cool.

    dgh'

    David G Hall

  6. #6
    bmac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    San Jose, CA
    Posts
    2,156
    Images
    9
    </span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (David Hall @ Apr 1 2003, 03:30 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Tom,

    Also, if you were every to do a test comparint WD2D, PMK, Rollo and ABC in addition to Rodinal or D76 the conventional developers, THAT would be pretty cool.

    dgh&#39; </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
    Yes yes, please do all the testing for us&#33; LOL&#33;
    hi!

  7. #7

    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    963
    Some background:
    I shoot 5x7 primarily, with the discontinuance (announced or actual) of my favorite films, both black and white and color, I tried to find some suitable substitutes. This led me to start cutting down 8x10 film mostly Acros, VS100, and Portra 400 NC. I decided, being a weekend photographer, at best, that this, and any process involving individual tray processing were taking too large a proportion of the available time. So new rules - any film I use must be available in 5x7 and the film/developer must be able to be processed in a Jobo. This will enable me to spend more time shooting and printing.

    glbeas:
    yes, thanks for your comments, agitation as the enemy of Rodinal edge effects was always my impression. Then I read Ed Buffaloe&#39;s comments on his website the relevant quote is "However, Dr. Richard Henry, in Controls in Black and White Photography, states that his tests show adjacency effects are caused by “lateral diffusion in the emulsion layer” and are not dependent on agitation. In any case, Rodinal’s adjacency effects are well-documented and contribute to its reputation for sharpness." (Ed, hope you don&#39;t mind a quote from your website.)

    This led me to believe that I might be able to get the sharpness of pyro using Rodinal in the jobo. Turns out not to be the case, or not noticed by me, anyway.

    Eric:
    apologies, I haven&#39;t been following the Pyrocat thread. My understanding is that you can&#39;t buy it ready made and I don&#39;t have scales to mix it myself. It does sound like it might be the best of both world&#39;s, though.

    David:
    What film are you using for your pyro/azo work? Tri-x seems capable of being developed to an extremely high contrast index. I probably won&#39;t on AZO for another couple weeks, but when I do, I&#39;ll make arrangements to send you a print.

    All joking about testing aside, in a short time I&#39;ve managed to develop a repeatable test suite that will allow me to compare finished prints of different film/developer combinations relatively quickly (hint, hint).

  8. #8
    glbeas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Roswell, Ga. USA
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    3,307
    Images
    109
    Tom, you may have better luck getting adjacency effects in the Jobo with Rodinal at higher dilutions than 1:50. Quite a few folks use Rodinal at 1:100 with times in a regular tank from 15 to 20 minutes at EIs from 250 to 800.
    I can understand the adjacency diffusion occurring in the emulsion but the replenishment is from the surrounding developer so stand development will starve the most actively developing areas to a degree. I&#39;d be interested to know how a higher dilution affects your process if the extended times don&#39;t bother you any.
    Gary Beasley

  9. #9

    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Shooter
    Large Format
    Posts
    6,242
    Tom,
    You may want to check into Photo Warehouse. They cut film to the size that you need. Their film is 125 and 400 speed and people who have used it seem to indicate that it is FP4 and HP5+ purchased by them in large sizes and cut down and resold under their private label.

    Regarding TriX in ABC pyro, it is an unforgiving film in my experience. The highlights will block up very easily when the shoulder of the curve is breached. I have shot TriX for years in 4X5 and developed in HC110. However since I now use pyro exclusively, I don&#39;t find the film nearly as good as my other favorite Bergger BPF 200. However that film is not capable of a great deal of expansion. Others have indicated that HP5+ suffers from the same problem but that FP4 is a film that will handle expansion very well.

    I have heard some very glowing reports on Efke films as well. This film is European in origin and sold by J&C Photo in Shawnee Mission, Kansas. There are posts reporting other&#39;s experience with this film on MichaelandPaula.com.

    I anticipate switching to Pyrocat HD and FP4 and HP5+ or their equivalent at Photowarehouse for my 12X20 negatives. This is based upon the testing information that others have shared with me. There is a good source of test information on these films and that developer on Unblinkingeye.com. I personally see no need, for myself, to reinvent the wheel in the testing arena, since a lot of documentation exists on this film and developer combination. Hope that this helps, good luck.
    Art is a step from what is obvious and well-known toward what is arcane and concealed.

    Visit my website at http://www.donaldmillerphotography.com

  10. #10

    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    South Pasadena, CA USA
    Posts
    470
    Tom,

    I would be interested in hearing about your test suite, and helping out. It sounded a little selfish earlier when I suggested that you pile on even MORE testing. I am happy to share the load, if we can figure out how to do that.

    I use Bergger, HP5, and FP4, mostly in that order. I used tri-x only as a reporter eons ago. I somehow found over the years that HP5 gave me snappier contrast AND more detail in both highlights and shadows, so I have pretty much stuck with that. The Bergger is even longer in scale, but it is grainier so I don&#39;t enarge it, even at 5x7. I use the Jobo Expert drums for sheets, the 1500 series tanks for the occasional roll, and I am just beginning to use trays and experiment with ABC.

    dgh
    David G Hall

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast


 

APUG PARTNERS EQUALLY FUNDING OUR COMMUNITY:



Contact Us  |  Support Us!  |  Advertise  |  Site Terms  |  Archive  —   Search  |  Mobile Device Access  |  RSS  |  Facebook  |  Linkedin