Switch to English Language Passer en langue française Omschakelen naar Nederlandse Taal Wechseln Sie zu deutschen Sprache Passa alla lingua italiana
Members: 70,589   Posts: 1,545,934   Online: 1215
      
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 15
  1. #1

    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Shooter
    35mm RF
    Posts
    86

    Kodak 5302/ D-76 combo

    I'm trying to make negs using Kodak 5302 after I photographed my Scala slides with a slide duplicator.

    I've read the past threads on making B&W slides, where a print developer such as Dektol was recommended. However, when I used PQ developer, I found far too much contrast. Anyway, for slides the recommended contrast index is 2.1 and above, but for me to get printable negs, I'd like to keep contrast below 1.5.

    Any recommendations on using D-76 with 5302? The data sheet says it can be used if the original negs are high-contrast, with a developing time of 4-10 mins continuous agitation. That's such a large range-- anyone has recommendations?

    PS. I can't get D-97 here, which is the recommended developer.

  2. #2

    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    1,730
    Let me get this straight, you are trying to make negatives of your b&w slides?

    Will these negs be inter-negatives for other slides or for prints?

    Either way, you really need to use 5234 Dupe Neg Stock processed to a .50 to .70 gamma range; probably .50 gamma. I don't know why you'd be using 5302 unless it is the only film you have on hand.

    As for D-97, you should find Dektol practically the same developer.

    In reading your post, I think you may have it mixed up; the Dektol is recommeded for making SLIDES from negatives, not the other way around.

    You should search the forums for MHV's postings on making slides from negatives on 5302.

    Also, the formulas for D-96 and D-97 are freely published on Eastman Kodak's website in their motion picture section.

  3. #3

    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Toronto, Canada
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    587
    This is one area where I think you're going to have to experiment... it's got to depend somewhat on your exposure and what results are acceptable to you.

  4. #4

    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Shooter
    35mm RF
    Posts
    86
    Thank you Kino. I've read your past posts on your experiences, and I've Googled all over.

    Yes, I am trying to make negs of my slides so I can print them in the dark room. Scala is so beautiful, but ilfochrome printing is way too expensive and inaccessible.

  5. #5

    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Winnipeg, MB, Canada
    Shooter
    35mm
    Posts
    830
    Well, it will probably take some experimentation, but with a little math you can get sort of a guideline to start with (and feel free to double-check my math, it's been a while ):

    - from this link it's suggested 5302 can be developed with Dektol (I'm assuming 1+3 given that the post talks about "standard paper developer", and I believe 1+3 is the usual paper dilution) for 3 minutes

    - from the Massive Dev Chart, you can get a baseline for both Dektol and D-76 for Tri-X @ 400 - assuming there's a fairly similar relationship between the 2 when developing 5302, you can use this to calculate a similar time for D-76

    So, Tri-X @ 400 in Dektol 1+3 is listed as 3.5 min at 24 degrees. The times for the same in D-76 are all at 20 degrees, so looking at the chart here (towards the bottom of the page), the Dektol time would correspond to 5.5 min at 20 degrees.

    Tri-X @ 400 (new) in D-76 1+1 is listed as 9.75 min at 20 degrees.

    Thus, we're looking at: (3:x) = (5.5:9.75), and therefore x = 5.32, or just about 5 min 19 seconds in D-76 1+1 at 20 degrees.
    i can't wait to take a picture of my thumb with this beautiful camera.

    - phirehouse, after buying a camera in the classifieds

  6. #6

    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    1,730
    Mabman,

    Dektol is too high an energy developer for a dupe neg unless you dilute the heck out of it.

    D96 (negative) has more Elon (metol) than Hydroquinone and the D97 is equal parts Elon and Hydroquinone, so the latter is the most energetic.

    Waileong,

    Here from the Kodak site; download the PDF which has the chemical formulas for the each developer and there is nothing exotic in either one really.

    Believe me, I setup and duped several million feet of release prints for film restoration and if you use a positive developer and print stock to do this, you won't be happy with the results -- unless you don't like full Greyscale images...

    Our dupe neg tanks were over twice the length of our positive processor tanks, so that gives you an idea of the energy difference -- that and a shot of sodium hydroxide for the postive -- that makes a difference!

    If you need some 5234, I have several hundred feel around here somewhere; short ends I managed to abscond with when I left work (routinely threw out any short end under 100 foot anyway).

  7. #7

    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Shooter
    35mm RF
    Posts
    86
    I just did it. First time I tried D76 1+1 @ 7 mins, I felt it was too contrasty, I shot the transparencies again, and did 5:15. Still slightly too contrasty, but I'll give it a shot on my enlarger first, maybe resort to split grade printing if I have to before I reshoot if necessary.

    Wai Leong
    ===
    PS -- For info, I also developed a strip of 5302 in an open beaker using D76 1+1 to see how long it would take to get maximum black. It took more than 8 mins! So 5:15 is already on the safe side.

  8. #8

    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Winnipeg, MB, Canada
    Shooter
    35mm
    Posts
    830
    Quote Originally Posted by Kino View Post
    Mabman,

    Dektol is too high an energy developer for a dupe neg unless you dilute the heck out of it.

    D96 (negative) has more Elon (metol) than Hydroquinone and the D97 is equal parts Elon and Hydroquinone, so the latter is the most energetic.
    I'm certainly not disputing your experience, just offering a starting point for solution for D-76 based on what I could find. Interesting side-note, some people have reported using 5302 in-camera shot at about 6 ISO with interesting results (being orthochromatic with no anti-halation layer).
    i can't wait to take a picture of my thumb with this beautiful camera.

    - phirehouse, after buying a camera in the classifieds

  9. #9
    Michel Hardy-Vallée's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Montréal (QC)
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    4,351
    Images
    132
    Just to add a little: I use 2302 (similar to 5302, but on an estar base) to make B&W slides and as an all-purpose negative. When I make slides (from normal B&W negs) I use Dektol stock for the highest possible contrast. That's not what you want.

    When I use 2302 as an in-camera negative (cf. in my gallery http://www.apug.org/gallery/showphot...19&ppuser=6132), I use Rodinal 1+100 for about 11 mins. That gives me negatives that prints easily on grade 2-3, so the gamma is somewhere around 0.6.

    The useful thing about Rodinal is that you can use it at very high dilution to tame the contrast of the film. HC-110 at similar dilution would probably yield similar results. You can just tweak the concentration to achieve the proper contrast, keeping time constant.
    Using film since before it was hip.


    "One of the most singular characters of the hyposulphites, is the property their solutions possess of dissolving muriate of silver and retaining it in considerable quantity in permanent solution" — Sir John Frederick William Herschel, "On the Hyposulphurous Acid and its Compounds." The Edinburgh Philosophical Journal, Vol. 1 (8 Jan. 1819): 8-29. p. 11

    My APUG Portfolio

  10. #10

    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    1,730
    Quote Originally Posted by mabman View Post
    I'm certainly not disputing your experience, just offering a starting point for solution for D-76 based on what I could find. Interesting side-note, some people have reported using 5302 in-camera shot at about 6 ISO with interesting results (being orthochromatic with no anti-halation layer).
    Whoops! Sorry, misread your post. D76 certainly might be pressed into service with testing.

    Actually, the 5302 has a yellow dye that acts as a rudimentary anti-halation layer for blue light only; which makes sense!

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast


 

APUG PARTNERS EQUALLY FUNDING OUR COMMUNITY:



Contact Us  |  Support Us!  |  Advertise  |  Site Terms  |  Archive  —   Search  |  Mobile Device Access  |  RSS  |  Facebook  |  Linkedin