Household replacement for Photoflo?

[eric]

I mix photo-flo and rubbing alchohol together (about a few capfuls per gallon). It keeps critters from growing in the container and helps it dry. Not sure if this method is for everyone but its fine for me.

[PHOTOTONE]

I think something should be clarified about using dishwashing detergent. The only thing that will work is the liquid that is sold for HAND WASHING of dishes in the SINK. Under no circumstances should you use the gel that is sold for using in a dishwasher. This is a very caustic substance.

Photoflo contains a surfactant, which lowers the surface tension of water, thus causing it to sheet off, rather than puddle into droplets. Dishwashing liquid contains a surfactant as well as detergents. So, they are not the same, but they do exhibit the same qualities in regards to lowering the surface tension of water. Whether the minute traces of detergent left on the film are detrimental, I don't know. But I DO KNOW that you could only possibly use the liquid "soaps" designed for HAND WASHING of dishes.

[Sirius Glass]

If it was that easy, Kodak and others would not have bothered to manufacture it.

Steve

[Photo Engineer]

Sigh, ok, here goes again.

Dishwashing fluids are most often alkaline, have dyes in them and scents along with skin oils to prevent dishwasher hands. And, lots of other stuff. The surfactant in them is often ionic such as di-nonlyl napthalene sulfonic acid sodium salt.

Ever see the sink type dishwasher fluid that is yellow? Thats dye. Does it smell good? Thats the scent, and if you wash your hands with it, it leaves them silky smooth, that is the oil.

Go ahead, use it on your film. I don't care. But you can get lots of good surfactants out there such as Tween, Alkanol, TritonX 100 and others, but Kodak, Ilford and Fuji all supply good surfactants that are guaranteed to be harmless when used on film. The best surfactant is nonionic with a neutral pH.

PE

[kevs]

Just wondering of anyone knows of a replacement for Photo-Flo that can be found around the house. When I was a kid, I think I used to put a drop of dish washing soap in the water to get the water to sheet off the film.

Hi Dave,

As orhers have said, it is possible - but not advisable - to use washing-up liquid (Fairy Liquid is a popular UK brand) as a replacement for wetting agent. Having done so a couple of times in an 'emergency' (some clown of a student had contaminated the college's diluted wetting agent with fixer) I'd add that you should make sure it's very dilute.

How dilute? Put a tiny drop onto a finger, wash this almost off under a tap and then add the rest to the final rinse water. Then discard 75% of this water and top up with fresh. You need it so that when you agitate the water with a finger only a small number of bubbles appear. Anything more will leave a nasty deposit on your film.

But as others have rightly said, a proper wetting agent is way preferable to using liquid soap. Your precious negs are worth the few pounds or dollars for the real stuff.

[dslater]

I mix photo-flo and rubbing alchohol together (about a few capfuls per gallon). It keeps critters from growing in the container and helps it dry. Not sure if this method is for everyone but its fine for me.

Hi Eric,
are you saying a few capfuls of photo-flo in a gallon of rubbing alcohol, or do you mean photo-flo + a few capfuls of rubbing alcohol in a gallon of water?

Dan

[eric]

Hi Eric,
or do you mean photo-flo + a few capfuls of rubbing alcohol in a gallon of water?

Dan

This one Dan. I'm not very scientific, it just works for me. I often use a little more flo than normal and eyball the amount of rubbing alchohol. The less stuff I do before a printing or processing session, the better (like mixing flo).

[Photo Engineer]

If the rubbing alcohol you have is denatured, the denaturant may have unwanted effects.

Pour some of the denatured alcohol into water. If it turns cloudy, then it has the 'bad' ingredient and should NOT be used in any photographic situation.

PE

[Sirius Glass]

I find that it works better if I put ethanol [not denatured] directly in to me.

Steve

[gainer]

I wouldn't want anybody but photographers to know this, but I have been known to misuse some of their liquid detergent. It's a bit like my pink pajamas. The ones I wear in the summer when it's hot, in the winter when it's not, and sometimes in the springtime, and sometimes in the fall, I jump right in between the sheets with nothing on at all.

Does PE or any of you know exactly what is in Photoflo? How do we know it is in fact not the same as the stuff you put in that little dispenser in your dishwasbher to prevent water spots?

Actually, I have not used anything but a fresh paper towel or a soft cloth, like an old fashioned diaper, with which I gently remove the surface water film. I have not had any problem with scratches or water marks, or even the mineral content of my well water. If this be treason, make the most of it!