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Thread: Use for TSP

  1. #1

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    Use for TSP

    I've got quite a bit of leftover TSP (bought it for making MCM-100; not my favorite dev and used the rest of the glycin for Ansco 130) and have nothing to use it with. Does anyone know of some formula I can stick this stuff in?

    Or can it be subbed for sod. carb? I see its pH is close to sod. carb.

    (BTW, I don't know if the TSP I have is anal grade, farm grade, photo grade, 1st grade or mule fritters! As long as it ain't BORAX!

  2. #2
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
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    Tri Sodium Phosphate will generally be at a higher pH than Sodium Carbonate at equal molar concentration. I would have to look up the actual values, but IIRC, Sodium Carbonate is best at pH 10, and TSP is best at about 11.0.

    It is used in Kodachrome and Ektachrome processes to make a high pH reversal color developer. It can be used to formulate high contrast B&W developers, but it does not have good buffering ability compared to carbonate and therefore the pH has a tendancy to drop more quickly than other alkalis.

    It can be used to wash walls or it can also be used to wash dishes and as a replacement for Borax in the laundry. Oh, sorry. Its comparatively higher pH is more stressful on some fabrics and some kitchen ware.

    In any event, it is considered a 'bad' pollutant due to the ability of microorganisms to 'feed' on it when it is diluted in effluents.

    PE

  3. #3
    CBG
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    Maybe one of these paper dev. formulas shamelessly copied off the net:

    Edwal 102
    Water 500 ml
    Sodium Sulfite 80 g
    Trisodium phosphate 120 g
    Glycin 25 g
    Potassium Bromide 3 g
    Water to 1000 cc

    Or:
    Wall and Jordan Unnamed Paper Developer

    Water 1000cc
    Sodium Sulfite 100g
    Trisodium phosphate 125g
    Glycin 25g
    Potassium Bromide 3g


    1:3 for chloride and chlorobromide papers,
    1:4 for bromide papers

    develops in 2 to 3 minutes

    Best,

    C

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    Back, wayyyy back, I worked as a janitor's assistant in the NYC public school system. It was a lot of hard work, but it paid well in those days. Imagine a 16 year old kid making $200 a week in 1969! Anyway, we used TSP to clean the desks, the walls, and the floors. Man, that stuff would strip off old wax like nobody's business. It also took the skin off your hands like nobody's business. We didn't think of using gloves back then.

    In high enough concentrations, it's pretty nasty stuff. Use it for those tough cleaning jobs, but do wear some gloves.

  5. #5
    MattKing's Avatar
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    There is nothing better for preparing walls when it is time to repaint - but be sure to:
    1) use gloves; and 2) rinse

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    richard ide's Avatar
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    Anal grade?? Should we worry?
    Richard

    Why are there no speaker jacks on a stereo camera?

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    Quote Originally Posted by richard ide View Post
    Anal grade?? Should we worry?
    Yes - check the Borax purity thread for the painful details.

  8. #8
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    Is it not also used in smaller concentrations as a chelating agent when using carbonate in hard water? I'll have to go look at the box I got at the supermarket to see if it contains phosphate or claims that it does not.
    Gadget Gainer

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    Yes, TSP can remove calcium from water, but the best form for chelating is Sodium Hexameta Phosphate. This latter is also known as Graham's salt and was sold as Calgon and is derived from the sodium hydrogen phosphates rather than TSP.

    Calgon apparently no longer uses phosphates, nor do dishwasher solutions due to their effect on causing things like growths of algae in ponds and lakes. Kodak used Calgon until Calgon changed formulas and then went to Quadrofos instead. Quadrofos is a better chelating agent, uses phosphorous, but does not pollute the same way as TSP or the hexameta phosphate did.

    So, the TSP can be used as a sequestrant, but you must use it in small quantity and check the pH of the developer to insure that it is not changed by the TSP. The pH range of TSP is between 11.5 and 11.9 depending on concentration.

    PE

  10. #10
    gainer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by richard ide View Post
    Anal grade?? Should we worry?
    Well, it is a laxative, but a teaspoon or more taken at one time can kill you. Some say 1/8 teaspoon in a liter of water drunk over the course of a day cures everything from constipation through dandruff to fibromyalgia and beyond.
    Gadget Gainer

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