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  1. #31

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    Original poster, has any of this helped?

  2. #32

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    I think the OP asked for a moderator to delete the thread early on.

    Mike

  3. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikebarger View Post
    I think the OP asked for a moderator to delete the thread early on.

    Mike
    Yes, I read that, but I wondered if he might have come back for a look.

  4. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by c6h6o3 View Post
    You must know something I don't, then. Maybe I'll give it another try.
    Hmm - I'm not sure. I follow the directions in "The Book of Pyro" and I use FP4+ film. I do not use the after bath following the fix stage as it seems to only add to the general stain. I do mix all my chemistry with distilled water and I get my PMK pre-mixed from Bostic & Sullivan. I also use TF-4 as my fixer and a plain water stop bath
    Hope this helps.

    Dan
    Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery;None but ourselves can free our minds. - Bob Marley

  5. #35
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    "Nothing has been as overhyped as pyro developers, except perhaps Azo."

    Jim, I'm curious what you mean, given your previous use of AZO. Could you explain a little? I still use your AZO prints to see what I missed out on.

    GB

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by gbenaim View Post
    "Nothing has been as overhyped as pyro developers, except perhaps Azo."

    Jim, I'm curious what you mean, given your previous use of AZO. Could you explain a little? I still use your AZO prints to see what I missed out on.

    GB
    Hello, my name is Jim and I'm an Azoholic. <"Hi, Jim!">

    I still use Azo because I still have some, but I need to learn to use something else. Some day I will run out.

    As I begin to search for alternatives I see prints on other papers that are just as good as the finest Azo prints. Maybe they weren't as easy to make as they would have been with Azo, and maybe the paper was more expensive but the end results are exquisite.

    People (including myself) got too locked up on it as the be-all and end-all of photographic papers. I still love it but I've seen recent prints by Scott Killian (Kentona) and Joe Freeman (Centennial POP) which just about made me weep they were so fine.

    When one is shielded with his "I've got the amazing, secret unfair advantage" armor, the realization that it's printing skill that is the most important element tends to bounce off one's helmeted head. Lately I've been a little more open minded.

    Thanks for hearing my testimony.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by dslater View Post
    Hmm - I'm not sure. I follow the directions in "The Book of Pyro" and I use FP4+ film. I do not use the after bath following the fix stage as it seems to only add to the general stain. I do mix all my chemistry with distilled water and I get my PMK pre-mixed from Bostic & Sullivan. I also use TF-4 as my fixer and a plain water stop bath
    Hope this helps.

    Dan
    I should tell you that I always did the after bath in used developer. That's probably why my PMK negatives have so much fog stain.

    The exception to this is Ilford Pan F+, which yields beautifully image stained negatives with no detectable fog, even if you do the after bath. One of my all time favorite combinations. If they still make Pan F, you owe it to yourself to give it a try.

    I've always like PMK for enlargements. It's just the contact prints that I didn't like with it.

  8. #38
    Ole
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doug K View Post
    I really think I've come to the wrong place, and I really don't have enough experience to be posting here. If a moderator could please delete this thread I'd appreciate it. Thanks.
    Experience is a cumulative thing, and here on APUG you will get several centuries of cumulative experience in reply to even the simplest question. That doesn't mean that all the answers will be correct, not even that they will all agree. But that's just the way it is with experience.

    Your seemingly simple question has sparked off a very interesting exchange of opinions on the different experiences with different varieties of staining developers, which is far too valuable (and interesting) to be deleted.

    So your request for deletion is denied - at least for the time being.
    -- Ole Tjugen, Luddite Elitist
    Norway

  9. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ole View Post
    Just for the opposite opinion: I used pyro, but no longer use it except in very special cases.

    But that decision was made because I prefer to use graded papers, and a pyro negative that gives a decent print on G2 graded is useless for anything else. I also like to be able to switch between graded and MC papers, which you cannot easily do with pyro stained negatives.

    I agree with you that if you develop with pyro staining developers the switch between graded and VC silver papers requires some forethought. But it is fairly easy to do if you develop for the graded paper and adjust for VC papers with filters.

    As to the first point, it depends on what graded paper you are using, and what other use is intended, but I have found that with some of the common graded papers, Ilford Gallery #2 for example, that if you develop for the right contrast for silver you have a very good negative for printing with a number of UV sensitive alternative processes. In my own tests I found that I needed a DR of about log 1.5 for the Ilford Gallery #2 (with contact printing. Turns out that a negative that prints with a DR of log 1.5 by blue light has UV blocking of about log 2.0 - 2.2 for alternative processes. About perfect for kallitype, vandyke and pure palladium. Also about perfect for carbon.

    One of the characteristics of pyro stained negatives is that they have different CI for printing with blue sensitive and UV sensitive processes. One can really take advantage of this if you understand the specific CI need of each of different processes.

    Sandy King

  10. #40
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    Hutchings himself (somewhere, I'd have to hunt for it) said forget the after bath.

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