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  1. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by JBrunner View Post
    Hutchings himself (somewhere, I'd have to hunt for it) said forget the after bath.
    I have heard that a number of times before and I believe it. What I find a little strange is that the after-bath is still in the latest edition of his book. I have this edition and noted a few changes from an older edition a friend has. Even if he couldn't take it out entirely, you'd think he'd put something in there about not using it anymore.

    Dan
    Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery;None but ourselves can free our minds. - Bob Marley

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by dslater View Post
    I have heard that a number of times before and I believe it. What I find a little strange is that the after-bath is still in the latest edition of his book. I have this edition and noted a few changes from an older edition a friend has. Even if he couldn't take it out entirely, you'd think he'd put something in there about not using it anymore.

    Dan
    It could be hearsay, I could have read somebody else saying "Gordon said..."
    All I can tell you for sure is that I dumped it, and my contrasts improved and my BF went way down.

  3. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by c6h6o3 View Post
    Hello, my name is Jim and I'm an Azoholic. <"Hi, Jim!">

    I still use Azo because I still have some, but I need to learn to use something else. Some day I will run out.

    When one is shielded with his "I've got the amazing, secret unfair advantage" armor, the realization that it's printing skill that is the most important element tends to bounce off one's helmeted head. Lately I've been a little more open minded.

    Thanks for hearing my testimony.
    No No No, you have it all wrong. If you would just add 4.3 g/l of Kodak Unobtanium you will be able to make the finest prints ever made, under any lighting conditions, even on the back of a Big Mac wrapper. 'sept I bought up all the Unobtanium.....

    (hat tip to kevin at B&S)

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brook View Post
    No No No, you have it all wrong. If you would just add 4.3 g/l of Kodak Unobtanium you will be able to make the finest prints ever made, under any lighting conditions, even on the back of a Big Mac wrapper. 'sept I bought up all the Unobtanium.....

    (hat tip to kevin at B&S)
    Damn. I was saving up my Big Mac wrappers.LOL!

  5. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by dslater View Post
    I have heard that a number of times before and I believe it. What I find a little strange is that the after-bath is still in the latest edition of his book. I have this edition and noted a few changes from an older edition a friend has. Even if he couldn't take it out entirely, you'd think he'd put something in there about not using it anymore.

    Dan
    My position on the after-bath alkaline wash has always been that is serves no purpose. In my article, “An Introduction to Pyro staining developers, with special attention to the Pyrocat-HD formula” which has been at http://unblinkingeye.com/Articles/PCat/pcat.html for many years, I state.

    “Do not use an alkaline after-bath after fixing as recommended by Hutchings for PMK. My tests show that the stain added by this after-bath is primarily b+f, or general stain. General stain increases printing times and does nothing to enhance the printing qualities of your negatives.”

    That was published at a time when it was pretty much accepted as fact that the after-bath alkaline was best procedure. Many people challenged my position back then, but not so many now.

    Sandy King
    Last edited by sanking; 12-19-2007 at 10:17 PM. Click to view previous post history.

  6. #46
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    Furthermore, it decreases contrast on VC paper.
    Gadget Gainer

  7. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by sanking View Post
    My position on the after-bath alkaline wash has always been that is serves no purpose. In my article, “An Introduction to Pyro staining developers, with special attention to the Pyrocat-HD formula” which has been at http://unblinkingeye.com/Articles/PCat/pcat.html for many years, I state.

    “Do not use an alkaline after-bath after fixing as recommended by Hutchings for PMK. My tests show that the stain added by this after-bath is primarily b+f, or general stain. General stain increases printing times and does nothing to enhance the printing qualities of your negatives.”

    That was published at a time when it was pretty much accepted as fact that the after-bath alkaline was best procedure. Many people challenged my position back then, but not so many now.

    Sandy King
    So Does Hutchings still recommend it? Personally, I never used spent developer as my after bath instead I used a solution of sodium metaborate. However, since I couldn't see any difference in my negatives and after reading the unblinkingeye, I stopped using it.
    Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery;None but ourselves can free our minds. - Bob Marley

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by dslater View Post
    So Does Hutchings still recommend it?
    No, he does not. He recommends against it now.
    Jim MacKenzie - Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada

    A bunch of Nikons; Feds, Zorkis and a Kiev; Pentax 67-II (inherited from my deceased father-in-law); Bronica SQ-A; and a nice Shen Hao 4x5 field camera with 3 decent lenses that needs to be taken outside more. Oh, and as of mid-2012, one of those bodies we don't talk about here.

    Favourite film: do I need to pick only one?

  9. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by dslater View Post
    So Does Hutchings still recommend it? Personally, I never used spent developer as my after bath instead I used a solution of sodium metaborate. However, since I couldn't see any difference in my negatives and after reading the unblinkingeye, I stopped using it.

    According to reports I have heard from people who have attended workshops with Hutchings, or discussed the issue with him, he apparently no longer recommends the after bath.

    The after bath will increase the B+F, or general stain, of most films. However, the increase may not be enough to appreciate visually. But if you read the stain with a transmission densitometer before and after you should see a slight increase in overall stain. The increase will not be proportional, but equal in the shadow and highlight areas.

    Sandy King
    Last edited by sanking; 12-20-2007 at 12:40 PM. Click to view previous post history.

  10. #50
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    I have been an avid pyro user for years now and have tried all the varieties. I would have to say that for a beginner you might want to start with Pyrocat-HD. It stains beautifully with a wide number of films and yields very printable negatives. I use it with T-Max 100 and am very pleased with its flexibility. Added to that it is less toxic than some of the others.

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