less fix time = more grain?

[ann]

laughing out loud on that one david, thanks i needed a good chuckle today

[Photo Engineer]

If anyone is an expert on this subject it would be the team of Dick and Sylvia. I think that we have the definitive word from them.

PE

[Ian Grant]

The current issue of Photo Techniques has an article by Dick Dickerson and Silvia Zawadski that debunks "grain clumping" in long wet times. They basically say wet time has no effect on apparent graininess.

For my two cents worth, I've found inconsistent temperatures. . . . .
Peter Gomena

Micro reticulation which is also better known as grain clumping is usually the result of poor temperature control and inconsistent temperatures between the Dev, Stop-bath, Fix or wash water. Its caused by rapid shrinking & expansion of the emulsion.

Ian

[argus]

Actually, the cycles of the moon effect grain more than anything ...

And women should not be allowed in darkrooms when menstruating!

[JBrunner]

And women should not be allowed in darkrooms when menstruating!

Wanna get some weird stuff? Get your silver stuff contaminated with Pt/PD or vice versa.

Ian's statement sounds more likely than something to do with fixing times.

[PhotoJim]

Thanks for volunteering Jim.

I might just do it too.

Personally I don't think wet time matters (within reason; maybe a week in water might matter, but 22 minutes instead of 14 won't matter, I bet).

What I think I will do is do two rolls of film with the same test subjects - identical films, of course. I'll give each a water bath so it's apples to apples. One will get a couple of minutes in the water, then on to development. The other will get a couple of hours in the water bath, then on to development. If this doesn't show a difference then for all practical purposes, wet time is irrelevant unless you are doing day-long stand development.

[Ian Grant]

Long wet times could easily lead to a greater probability of grain clumping occurring as the emulsion will be softer, particularly if wash water temperatures are not controlled properly an often a neglected area fo temperature control.

Ian

[pentaxuser]

I feel we haven't quite answered the OP's question except to imply that he can't trust the evidence of his eyes or, more likely I think, that as no-one else has seen this phenomenon then maybe something was different about his process to anyone's else's. He mentions seeing the extra grain after scanning. Can I ask you OP: Did you scan each neg batch on all the previous occasions and on the other occasions with longer fix times you haven't seen this phenomenon or is scanning a departure?

Can you look alternatively look at neg grain under a grain focuser as used for an enlarger? Is the phenomenon still the same? Could it all be connected to the scanning in some way?

Just some thoughts.

I appreciate how frustrating it must be to be in a minority of one.

pentaxuser

[jim appleyard]

And women should not be allowed in darkrooms when menstruating!

Men as well!

[Photo Engineer]

While doing homework for a post by Patrick Gainer, I found a chart in Haist, Vol I, P 565, which shows the effect of extended times in the fixer for two films. The times were 5mins, 30mins and 60mins. Effectively, anything much over 10mins IMHO would be bad. Since he shows only the 3 widely spaced times, the actual rate is not evident, and would have to be quantitatively determined.

PE