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  1. #1

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    Verichrome Pan - Some advice please

    I need help here from anyone who can. Old Kodakers with experience of Ilford developers would be ideal but possibly not essential. Read on. Yes I know that Verichrome Pan and its development has come up a number of times and I have used the search engine but have found nothing really close to my circumstances. Let me explain:

    I have been asked to develop this film by someone who has no means of knowing its age except that it is quite old. Not his film originally. It was found in a drawer. My problem is that I only have two developers Ilford DDX and Rodinal. So in at least one case a very new kind of Ilford developer for a very old Kodak film.

    The Ilford website doesn't even list Verichrome Pan on its list of non Ilford film dev times for DDX which isn't surprising.

    Anyone have any ideas as to what a reasonable development time might be for DDX and Verichrome Pan including what might be a sensible additional time to account for its age?

    If no-one has any answers on this combo, I might be prepared to go for some Ilford ID11 on the basis that Ed Buffalo gives 7 mins for D76 at stock and that D76 and ID11 are very similar. I noticed that the agitation times however for D76 exceed those for ID11 considerably. Ed recommends constant agitation for the first 30 secs then 10 secs every 30 secs whereas ID11 is first 10 secs then 10 secs every minute.

    So is it safer to go with Ed's agitation routine? I suspect so but would like to hear others' views.

    Another option is Rodinal which Ed Buffalo's site also gives. It's John Welton's recommendation. I have enough of this developer. I am not a fan in terms of its grain but that may be the least of my problems in this case. It is 120 film and the prints, if the negs are OK, will be small. In fact of the two developers I have(DDX and Rodinal), only Rodinal is mentioned on Ed's site. One further snag is that John Welton's recommedation is film exposed at EI 80. This one will almost certainly have been exposed at standard ISO125. Is there a formula for working out the difference in times?

    To avoid wasting anyone's time, let me say that buying any Kodak developer and/or buying any anti-fogging chemical for what is a one-off attempt to develop this film which is unlikely ever to be repeated is not viable.

    So to summarise:
    Best and maybe safest option might be: Rodinal as Ed lists it for Verichrome.
    I am not a fan of Rodinal but the devil you know might be safest, provided I can find what John Weltons times at EI 80 translate into at ISO 125.

    My preferred option is:
    1. Using DDX if anyone has any ideas on how and experience of this combo
    Other options are:
    Rodinal as per Ed Buffalo site

    ID11 as substitute for D76 as an affordable one-off buy

    Least attractive(probably) for success is Ilford Perceptol which I could and would use for other films.

    I appreciate that as a one-off I have one chance only and Rodinal may be best but I'd certainly appreciate your views and would need times for ISO 125rather than EI 80

    Anyone having used Rodinal with Verichrome Pan at box speed of ISO 125, I'd certainly appreciate their time, temp and agitation routine as these are likely to be different from those listed on Ed's site at EI 80

    Sorry for the length of the tread but my aim is to clarify my position with regard to options to avoid wasting people's time on soliciting replies which may be ideal but not viable for me.
    Thanks in anticipation of any responses

    pentaxuser

  2. #2

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    Verichome pan was very close to Plus X times, try 7mints, or to be safe 8, better too dense that to thin. But you can check DDX for plus x or PF4 to come up with a time.

  3. #3

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    Rodinal works great-VP has fine grain, and the edge effects work nicely. So nicely that you can get Mackie lines if you don't use a pre-soak and tilt the tank for pour-in. IIRC I used 1:75 13 min at 75 F.
    Can't tell you how much time to add for the OD factor tho'

  4. #4

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    I've have quite a few of these to do. I've used Xtol, 1+1 for 8 minutes at 20 deg. C. I agitate for the first minute, thereafter 4 tank inversions every minute. At least one of the films was 50 years old and had moved from kitchen drawer to kitchen drawer over those years. Yes, the base fog's fairly heavy but they've all produced printable images. Full range, fine art prints are out of the question - but with films of this age that's not the intent.

    Good luck - let us know how it turns out.

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by eworkman View Post
    Rodinal works great-VP has fine grain, and the edge effects work nicely. So nicely that you can get Mackie lines if you don't use a pre-soak and tilt the tank for pour-in. IIRC I used 1:75 13 min at 75 F.
    Can't tell you how much time to add for the OD factor tho'
    Thanks. What is the OD factor to which you refer? Are you giving me the times for ISO 125? My assumption is that you are as your times are quite a bit longer than those on the Ed Buffalo site for EI 80.

    Can you confirm? Thanks

    pentaxuser

  6. #6

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    I recently posted an image taken on Verichrome Pan 120 in the technical gallery. It was exposed in 1964 and developed a few weeks ago in Calbe R09, which is quite similar to Rodinal. R09 is, in my experience, not as concentrated, as Rodinal and I would recommend you to develop the film for 9 minutes in Rodinal instead of the 10 minutes I used with R09. I have found that mid-tone separation on old films can be poor if you don’t agitate every thirty seconds.

    However, this advice is only valid if you believe that the film you have is from the late fifties or sixties… The backing paper on these films is almost crimson red with Kodak Verichrome Pan written in yellow. The Verichrome films I have developed are, according to the box, manufactured in England.
    I hope this helps

    Claes
    Last edited by Uhner; 01-04-2008 at 06:05 PM. Click to view previous post history. Reason: Well, why not...

  7. #7
    Guillaume Zuili's Avatar
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    Rodinal works great (as mentioned above), I process it in WD2D+ also (9 minutes in Jobo).
    Wouldn't be too worried about the exact shooting iso, it's a very forgiving film...
    I stocked a lot of VP and uses regularly.

  8. #8

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    Thanks all so far. Looks like Rodinal is the safest bet so far.

    Thanks Claes, your description of your mid 1960s Verichrome Pan will be useful in helping to identify my film's age. I have yet to be given it. I will get it tomorrow and I'll let you all know its age if that is possible to identify and how it turns out.

    Now you mention it, I I remember your picture in the gallery. If these negs turn out anything like as good then I'll be very happy.

    pentaxuser

  9. #9

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    I forgot to mention that I used R09 diluted 1+50…

  10. #10

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    You wrote, "If no-one has any answers on this combo, I might be prepared to go for some Ilford ID11 on the basis that Ed Buffalo gives 7 mins for D76 at stock and that D76 and ID11 are very similar. I noticed that the agitation times however for D76 exceed those for ID11 considerably. Ed recommends constant agitation for the first 30 secs then 10 secs every 30 secs whereas ID11 is first 10 secs then 10 secs every minute."

    I haven't used Verichrome Pan for a long time, but when it was freely available I used it all the time. Back in the day, I used Microdol-X and D-76 but preferred D-76. ID-11 is functionally equivalent so that won't be a problem. Just use the manufacturer's recommended time of 7 minutes at full strength or 8 minutes diluted 1+1 at 20 deg. C.

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