Switch to English Language Passer en langue française Omschakelen naar Nederlandse Taal Wechseln Sie zu deutschen Sprache Passa alla lingua italiana
Members: 70,228   Posts: 1,532,762   Online: 840
      
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 17
  1. #1

    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    London, England
    Shooter
    35mm
    Posts
    21
    I have heard much for VC paper but mostly due to cost (VC is all grades in one) but is there any great advantages in using graded paper? Is the quality of prints on graded paper really that much better?

  2. #2
    c6h6o3's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Shooter
    Large Format
    Posts
    3,172
    Images
    6
    When enlarging, I use Bergger VC paper developed in Dektol. I haven't found any quality difference between the graded and VC Bergger papers and I have complete control over contrast with the VC stuff.

    When contact printing I use Azo developed in amidol. Azo is available only in two grades so there is no choice there. The amidol allows good contrast control with a water bath.
    Jim

  3. #3

    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Louisville, Colorado
    Posts
    45
    If your exposure/developement is perfect for every negative, then graded paper is fine. In my case, VC papers have been a great aid in making better prints. Contrast control via split printing and selective dodging/burning is so easy with VC papers. Plus the selection of papers is quite good now. Ken

  4. #4
    Les McLean's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Northern England on the Scottish border
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    1,610
    One significant difference between graded and VC papers is the response to toning. I think that some graded papers respond better to most toning. If you ever contemplate doing lith printing graded papers are also better than VC.

    For better control over the development of graded papers I frequently use two bath devlopers which gives me significant contrast control. Have a look at the article I have in the articles section of the link portal for a complete description.
    "Digital circuits are made from analogue parts"
    Fourtune Cookie-Brooklyn May 2006

    Website: www.lesmcleanphotography.com

  5. #5

    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    South Pasadena, CA USA
    Posts
    470
    Les (and all),


    1) Do people usually split grade print and standard develop with VC papers and then standard print but split develop on graded papers? I see here that some people both split grade print and split develop. Seems like it would be hard to control all that variability.

    2) What are the differences in effect between split grade printing and split developing? If I treated the same negative both ways, how would the two prints differ? And would those differences be significant?

    Thanks!

    dgh
    David G Hall

  6. #6

    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Walnut Creek, California
    Shooter
    Large Format
    Posts
    558
    Images
    14
    I tried split developing and could never seem to get the same control as split filter printing. I have never been able to get a developer to act like a 00 or 0 filter and squeeze detail out of a hot highlight. It's a lot easier to formulate a high contrast developer though by using a very active accelerator and developing agent.

    For the way I work and think (that's a scary statement) split filter printing is more intuitive and one heck of a lot easier to deal with. But you really need to be comfortable with VC papers. If you are a dedicated graded paper person then once you have your negative your only recourse is the developer method.

    Mike

  7. #7

    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    South Pasadena, CA USA
    Posts
    470
    I made my question too confusing.

    Do most people EITHER split grade print OR split develop? Or often do both at the same time?

    dgh
    David G Hall

  8. #8

    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Oregon and Austria
    Shooter
    4x5 Format
    Posts
    833
    Some reasons for using graded paper instead of VC:

    Graded papers resond differently to pyro negatives (or other negatives developed with staining developers). The stain on these negs are some shade of yellow/brown and block proportionally more blue light, thereby increasing contrast, especially in the highlights where separation can be difficult. VC papers have the opposite response, since more green (low contrast) light makes it throught these areas than blue (hard contrast) light. (This could be useful for reducing contrast in the highlights, but this is rarely necessary).

    There is some concern about sharpness in VC papers due to the different focus of the different colors to which the paper is sensitive to. See Ctein's book for more on this.

    Graded papers do many times respond to toning better. This, however is a question of formulation and could be controlled by the manufacturer. Also, VC papers have a tendency to split-tone more than graded ones, something some of us find undesirable.

    Dealing with filters is a hassle and usually increases exposure time. (Most users of graded paper tailor their negs to one contrast anyway. Although this is not foolproof, we graded paper users are usually in the ballpark and need only go one contrast grade in either direction to get a fine print.) Intermediate contrast is achieved by manipulating print developers or switching brands of paper.



    Some reasons to use VC paper:

    Split-contrast printing! You just can't do this with graded paper. (That said, I use graded paper almost exclusively and rarely miss this possibility.)

    Less paper hanging around "in stock".

    Split toning.




    Regards, ;^D)





  9. #9
    Ole
    Ole is offline
    Ole's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Bergen, Norway
    Shooter
    Large Format
    Posts
    9,281
    Blog Entries
    1
    Images
    31
    I dicovered that all my paper is VC - except some packs that must be at least 10 years old. Not by choise, but because it's what's available locally. The only graded paper that's easy to find round here is Emaks, which responds really, really weirdly to toning (e.g. goes a rather nasty greenish-red in Viradon).

    I don't prefer VC, I don't need it. But I use it because it's what I have. About 95% of all my prints are made on grade 2 (no filter) anyway.
    -- Ole Tjugen, Luddite Elitist
    Norway

  10. #10
    Les McLean's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Northern England on the Scottish border
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    1,610
    David,

    Two bath development is a very subtle contrast control with either graded or VC papers. There are many variations in dilution that will give different results with both types of paper. For example, I mix the hard bath quite strong, 1 to 1 instead if 1 -3, sometimes using neat stock solution when I consider that I need the added punch that it will give. On the other hand I mix the soft developer up to 4 or 5 times more dilute that recommended by the manufacturer although when using the dev so weak you do have to renew it if you are planning a long session for the extra dilute developing agent will exhaust very quickly.

    When I use two bath I place the print in the hard bath first and remove it as soon as I see tone appear, I don't wait until I have a black on the paper. The remainder of the development is carried out in the very dilute soft developer although if you feel that the blacks need a kick you can return the print to the hard developer. I would normally expect to remove the print from the hard developer after only 15 to 25 seconds and still produce deep rich blacks. Those members who have seen my prints in either the post card exchange or the portfolio will confirm that the blacks are rich and vibrant. I do use other dilutions depending on the negative contrast and the tonality I wish to have in the final print. It may seem that there are many variables to consider and that the end result may not be worth the trouble but I am certain that when you have worked with this system for a while you will learn how to use different dilutions to give the control. Clearly the dilutions and method suit me and when I started using two bath on graded papers over 20 years ago I took some time work out how to achieve the subtle controls and what was best for me.
    "Digital circuits are made from analogue parts"
    Fourtune Cookie-Brooklyn May 2006

    Website: www.lesmcleanphotography.com

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast


 

APUG PARTNERS EQUALLY FUNDING OUR COMMUNITY:



Contact Us  |  Support Us!  |  Advertise  |  Site Terms  |  Archive  —   Search  |  Mobile Device Access  |  RSS  |  Facebook  |  Linkedin