Switch to English Language Passer en langue française Omschakelen naar Nederlandse Taal Wechseln Sie zu deutschen Sprache Passa alla lingua italiana
Members: 70,554   Posts: 1,545,007   Online: 745
      
Page 2 of 12 FirstFirst 12345678 ... LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 119
  1. #11

    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Bilthoven, The Netherlands
    Shooter
    4x5 Format
    Posts
    1,858
    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Hawley View Post
    I've been struggling with this too; I see it the effect on other papers at times, and not all the time on Azo.
    The 3-D effect is not specific for AZO. It depends on the photograpnic technique you are applying whether you will see it or not. A high defintion procedure is important to get it. When the defintion is high, you will observe it on enlarged photographs and not on contacts. I observe the phenomenon on 16x20" prints, but the 4x5" contacts are too small to see the phenomenon.
    With the lenses of the first part of the 20 th century, however, one might see the phenomenon on contacts of say 13x18 cm. Again, the appearance of the 3-D phenomenon depends on the photographic procedure they were using.

    Jed

  2. #12
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Rochester, NY
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    23,030
    Images
    65
    Well, to define this then, regarding what Ole, Alex and Sandy are referring to, I would suggest comparing the same print on one of my coatings on Baryta and another on Strathmore. The Strathmore is less sharp. If, as Tom states in his reference above there is some degree of depth in my Azo type paper (Thanks Tom), then the effect is not sharpness related.

    PE
    Last edited by Photo Engineer; 01-12-2008 at 10:12 AM. Click to view previous post history. Reason: Add clarity

  3. #13
    Ole
    Ole is offline
    Ole's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Bergen, Norway
    Shooter
    Large Format
    Posts
    9,281
    Blog Entries
    1
    Images
    31
    Well - one of the best ones I've seen is on a 9x12cm contact print on POP, from a glass plate negative developed in Pyrocat-HD. It's small, but when you look closely at it it has a "prescense" that is very difficult to get in enlargements.

    And BTW - the taking lens was a 150mm Heliar.
    -- Ole Tjugen, Luddite Elitist
    Norway

  4. #14

    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Bilthoven, The Netherlands
    Shooter
    4x5 Format
    Posts
    1,858
    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer View Post
    Well, to define this then, regarding what Ole, Alex and Sandy are referring to, I would suggest comparing the same print on one of my coatings on Baryta and another on Strathmore. The Strathmore is less sharp. If, as Tom states in his reference above (Thanks Tom), then the effect is not sharpness related.

    PE
    You are right; the effect is not sharpness related ( whatever sharpness may be). Let me explain it in the following way. The way we see/estimate 'distance' is because of a change in color, hue and value of the objects in the world around us. A tree on 100 meters distance is bluer than a tree on 50 meters distance, and the value or luminosity will change. Similarly, a landscape at the horizon will be almost white. Or mountains at a distance blue (Blue Ridge Mountains). The phenomenon is called aerial perspective. The question in photography is how to deal with photographic methods with this phenomenon. One has to understand the phenomena to adjust the photographic approach, if the objective is too have the effect in the photography. It is some physics. Not difficult to understand, but complex because of the complexity of the nature of the atmosphere and the interaction of light with that atmosphere.


    Jed

  5. #15
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Rochester, NY
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    23,030
    Images
    65
    Jed;

    I can change the apparent depth of a photographic print simply by increasing or decreasing the amount of gelatin in the coating. The grains seem suspended in deep gelatin, where they appear painted on with thin gelatin. This is another possible source for an 'illusion' to form in a printed photographic image.

    It may also be why there is no depth to a digital print. Everything is painted onto the surface.

    But, I'm sure there are loads of other explanations.

    PE

  6. #16
    David A. Goldfarb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Honolulu, Hawai'i
    Shooter
    Large Format
    Posts
    17,289
    Images
    20
    I've seen this effect with contact R-prints made from 8x10" color transparencies, so I don't even think it's particularly a B&W effect, so much as the edge sharpness and smooth tonality one gets by removing the whole optical system of enlargement (whether by projection or digital) from the process.
    flickr--http://www.flickr.com/photos/davidagoldfarb/
    Photography (not as up to date as the flickr site)--http://www.davidagoldfarb.com/photo
    Academic (Slavic and Comparative Literature)--http://www.davidagoldfarb.com

  7. #17

    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Portland, OR
    Shooter
    4x5 Format
    Posts
    3,268
    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer View Post
    I can change the apparent depth of a photographic print simply by increasing or decreasing the amount of gelatin in the coating. The grains seem suspended in deep gelatin, where they appear painted on with thin gelatin. This is another possible source for an 'illusion' to form in a printed photographic image.
    This seems to be a plausible explaination of some optical effect. Especially when made in comparision to Sandy's comment on Carbon prints, which have an actual bas-relief to them.

    So is the Azo emulsion actually thicker than most other papers out there?

  8. #18
    williamgregory's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    San Juan Capistrano
    Shooter
    Large Format
    Posts
    21
    Images
    5
    "However, as a carbon printer accustomed to making prints that have very great physical relief, and a 3-D presence that can not be missed, the tactile qualities of most silver papers, AZO included do not impress me much.

    Sandy King"

    Sandy, what is "physical relief" ?
    Kind Regards,
    William Gregory

  9. #19
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Rochester, NY
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    23,030
    Images
    65
    Quote Originally Posted by Kirk Keyes View Post
    This seems to be a plausible explaination of some optical effect. Especially when made in comparision to Sandy's comment on Carbon prints, which have an actual bas-relief to them.

    So is the Azo emulsion actually thicker than most other papers out there?
    Kirk;

    Products vary all over the place. I can't single out any one of them and say yes or no. The Azo type I coat is a standard 10% gelatin coated with a 5 mil blade. I have done this many times at Kodak. So, there is nothing particularly unusual about this formula.

    PE

  10. #20
    Alex Hawley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Kansas, USA
    Shooter
    Large Format
    Posts
    2,895
    Images
    63
    Quote Originally Posted by Jed Freudenthal View Post
    I observe the phenomenon on 16x20" prints, but the 4x5" contacts are too small to see the phenomenon.
    With the lenses of the first part of the 20 th century, however, one might see the phenomenon on contacts of say 13x18 cm. Again, the appearance of the 3-D phenomenon depends on the photographic procedure they were using.

    Jed
    I'd differ with you on that Jed. I can get the 3-D effect easily on a 4x5 contact print. I can also see it on a 4x5 Polaroid Type 55 print. I'm using lenses made in the 1940s, either a Commercial Ektar or a Dagor Series III.
    Semper Fi & God Bless America
    My Photography Blog

Page 2 of 12 FirstFirst 12345678 ... LastLast


 

APUG PARTNERS EQUALLY FUNDING OUR COMMUNITY:



Contact Us  |  Support Us!  |  Advertise  |  Site Terms  |  Archive  —   Search  |  Mobile Device Access  |  RSS  |  Facebook  |  Linkedin