Switch to English Language Passer en langue française Omschakelen naar Nederlandse Taal Wechseln Sie zu deutschen Sprache Passa alla lingua italiana
Members: 73,586   Posts: 1,622,203   Online: 1027
      
Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 27
  1. #11
    Sparky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    2,099
    Quote Originally Posted by Neanderman View Post
    It is a perfectly valid process.

    Oh yes - I know it's perfectly valid - and I used to do it in the early 80s too... but it won't ever give you a split tone effect - nor will the highlights develop independently from the shadows in each developer... you only need to see the way the characteristic density curve grows through development to see why this is. the highlights grow at a rate proportional to the shadows, just much slower... i.e. 10% growth of both highlights and shadows... I'm glad you're thinking about process like this though. Creativity is good, in my book.

  2. #12
    Neanderman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Ohio River Valley
    Shooter
    Large Format
    Posts
    575
    Quote Originally Posted by Sparky View Post
    Oh yes - I know it's perfectly valid - and I used to do it in the early 80s too... but it won't ever give you a split tone effect - nor will the highlights develop independently from the shadows in each developer...
    Right, and I should have emphasized that I used it for contrast control, not trying to split tone. Although one of my favorite papers for this was Portriga-Rapid. Combined with a mild selenium tone, it was possible to cool its color quite a bit. But it was still an overall warm tone image, not split in tonality at all.

    Ed
    "I only wanted Uncle Vern standing by his new car (a Hudson) on a clear day. I got him and the car. I also got a bit of Aunt Mary's laundry, and Beau Jack, the dog, peeing on a fence, and a row of potted tuberous begonias on the porch and 78 trees and a million pebbles in the driveway and more. It's a generous medium, photography." -- Lee Friedlander

  3. #13
    Sparky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    2,099
    Geez... did I respond to a post without drinking my coffee first...? AGAIN...???! Forgive me... for whatever reason I thought that split TONING was what the OP was after...! Well- a 'split-toned' EFFECT (albeit through development) -i.e. "warm whites and cool blacks..."
    Last edited by Sparky; 01-22-2008 at 09:54 PM. Click to view previous post history.

  4. #14

    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Shooter
    Large Format
    Posts
    106

    Split Developing

    I think you are confusing split toning, where you use two toners to get slightly different tones in the shadows and the high lights and a two bath developer where the aim is to get to an intermediate grade (2.25 or 2.375 or whatever) paper using a hard and a soft developer.

  5. #15
    dpurdy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Portland OR USA
    Shooter
    8x10 Format
    Posts
    2,082
    Images
    38
    If you are talking to me, I am not confused about anything. I was just trying to understand why it wouldn't be possible to get warm whites and cool blacks through split processing. People seem to think that photography is about following rules.

  6. #16

    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    central anatolia, Turkey
    Shooter
    Medium Format
    Posts
    426
    Images
    16
    i've gotten something close to the effect your after with agfa mcc111.

    first bath was diluted neutol plus ( also works with neutol wa ) 3 minutes no agitation - the image looks light and reddish/brown

    second bath was dektol 1:3 factorial 2 ( the rest of the image would emerge around 10-12 seconds so i pulled it out around 24 seconds )

    the darker tones were neutral, not cold but there was a subtle separation. if you selenium tone for a short period ( check with test strips ) you can cool down lower zones without cooling zone V onwards.

    hope this helps.

  7. #17

    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    central anatolia, Turkey
    Shooter
    Medium Format
    Posts
    426
    Images
    16
    ps the principles are the same as film development and ultra diluted developers. papers that have developing agents in them don't behave this way though ...

  8. #18
    gainer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Posts
    3,726
    Images
    2
    Quote Originally Posted by dpurdy View Post
    If you are talking to me, I am not confused about anything. I was just trying to understand why it wouldn't be possible to get warm whites and cool blacks through split processing. People seem to think that photography is about following rules.
    There are rules. We sometimes have to play around to find out what they are. If warm and cold tones were the result of dye formation, you would have one set of results. As is more often the case, the difference between warm and cold is in the particle size, and is a spectral effect. Finer particles make warmer tones IIRC. What happens when a grain is started in a fine grain developer and finished in a coarse grained one, or vice versa? I have a feeling you found out
    Gadget Gainer

  9. #19
    gainer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Posts
    3,726
    Images
    2
    PS.
    You might try one of the Pyrocat formulas for the warm highlights followed by something like Dektol for the shadows. Now you have a dye for the warm part. You could substitute hydroquinone for the catechol for a browner tone.

    I think I got that backward if you want warm highs in prints.
    Gadget Gainer

  10. #20
    dpurdy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Portland OR USA
    Shooter
    8x10 Format
    Posts
    2,082
    Images
    38
    I have done the dye experiment using procion dye and it works actually. I have done it with silver prints and platinum prints. You can make it as subtle or as radical as you want. But dye has the affect of reducing highlight contrast.

    I am not into toning though I do it occassionally and the split tone I can get out of selenium is not what I want. I know some people do toning with both selenium and sepia toning and get a very nice cool warm split color but I thought perhaps it could be done subtly with developers and I still don't understand why it can't be. But perhaps it is a matter of being too subtle to see.

    The other question that I thought someone might know the answer to is why the order of strong/weak developer split makes a difference. Strong developer first making more contrasty print and weak developer first making less contrasty print. But there was a suggestion earlier about developer incorporation that might be the answer. If there is developer incorporated, perhaps it reacts most with the initial development and the second developer is not affected by it.

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast


 

APUG PARTNERS EQUALLY FUNDING OUR COMMUNITY:



Contact Us  |  Support Us!  |  Advertise  |  Site Terms  |  Archive  —   Search  |  Mobile Device Access  |  RSS  |  Facebook  |  Linkedin