Switch to English Language Passer en langue française Omschakelen naar Nederlandse Taal Wechseln Sie zu deutschen Sprache Passa alla lingua italiana
Members: 71,914   Posts: 1,584,699   Online: 696
      
Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 27
  1. #1
    dpurdy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Portland OR USA
    Shooter
    8x10 Format
    Posts
    2,064
    Images
    38

    Split development, trying to understand

    I tested split development yesterday with Oriental WT FB VC and soft working glycin warm tone developer with postas bromide, and strong cold tone developer with benzotirazole.

    I wanted to try to get warm whites and cool blacks. That didn't happen. I processed 3 minutes in the warm tone soft developer and 1 minute in the strong cold tone developer. The prints all came out slightly coldish warm tone with no color split.

    What surprised me was in experimenting with strong cold tone developer first vs soft warm tone developer first. If I processed in the soft developer first the prints came out much softer without the depth to the black than when I processed in the strong developer first. Even though I kept the relative times the same. ! minute in the strong developer and 3 minutes in the soft developer. It was as if the soft developer inhibited the strong developer when I did the soft first. I did a water rinse between developers.

    I don't understand. It seems like it offers further contrast flexibility but it seems if you want full black with split development you have to do the strong developer first.

    Can anyone clear up why the color won't split and why the order of the developers makes a difference?

    Thanks Dennis

  2. #2

    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Willamette Valley, Oregon
    Shooter
    Medium Format
    Posts
    3,684
    Quote Originally Posted by dpurdy View Post
    It was as if the soft developer inhibited the strong
    developer when I did the soft first. I did a water rinse
    between developers. Thanks Dennis
    After three minutes in the soft? I'd say all the exposed
    silver had been developed. Dan

  3. #3
    dpurdy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Portland OR USA
    Shooter
    8x10 Format
    Posts
    2,064
    Images
    38
    But that doesn't make sense to me. the exposure is the same, but if first put in the soft developer and then the strong developer the print comes out lower contrast with less depth to the black than if first put in the strong developer and then the soft developer. If that amount of exposure has a potential of processing to a certain darkness in the strong developer, why does first putting the print into a weak developer change how dark it will become later in the strong developer? Seems illogical to me.

  4. #4
    gainer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Posts
    3,726
    Images
    2

    Logic. Phooey!

    It's what we get for having evolved logical thinking, but not fully.

    We have this resulting tendency to say the result is illogical instead of the thought process that produced the result. We all do it now and then, but it doesn't seem logical that we should.

    Please excuse me. I'm running a little fever.
    Gadget Gainer

  5. #5

    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    187
    AFAIK, the shadows will develop to completion before the highlights finish developing. So if you develop the shadows most of the way and then go into water, the developer is still hanging out in the gelatin developing the highlights. This presents a problem, since you want to develop the shadows to completion in one developer and the highlights in another. What chemistry knowledge I have would tell me that you should pull it when the shadows are nearly done and then very briefly go straight into a second solution of developer that is more concentrated than normal, which will out-compete the first for development of the highlights. I could be totally wrong, and if you leave it in the second dev too long obviously this would result in some over-development.

    I'm curious, though...why split develop instead of split-tone?

  6. #6
    Sparky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    2,100
    Where on earth did you read that you can do this? When you develop in two baths - if anything - you will get some slight characteristics of each when you do it the 'right way'. Never, in my experience, can you ever get a 'split' dev effect.

    The ONLY way to do that, in my experience, is to develop fully in developer A and then fix and bleach back using either;

    1. Chromium/Hydrochloric Acid (Potassium Dichromate & HCl)or
    2. Copper/Sulfuric Acid (Copper Sulfate & HSo4)

    so that it eats away the shadows first. But go only part way - and then wash and redev using a DIFFERENT developer (hopefully with very different characteristics) - to get a split effect.

    This is how you allow your different developers SEPARATE access to highlights and shadows.

  7. #7
    dpurdy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Portland OR USA
    Shooter
    8x10 Format
    Posts
    2,064
    Images
    38
    It was an experiment. I hadn't read anything on it but you know my brain works overtime sometimes coming up with possibilities and trying to understand.

  8. #8
    dpurdy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Portland OR USA
    Shooter
    8x10 Format
    Posts
    2,064
    Images
    38
    Here is my logic (that seems to not hold up).
    I know I can develop Oriental WT paper in different developers and come up with significantly different image color. I have done it. I hae processed in Glycin WT developer and gotten very warm tones even warmer paper base.

    I know I can develop the same paper in cold tone developer and get much colder tones, I have done that as well.

    So If I was to expose a print for full contrast and first develop it in a very soft working wt developer that gave me relatively more complete development in the light tones so at that point the print would be warm toned without deep blacks, and then rinse it off and develop it further in a strong cold tone developer with a fair amount of benzotriazole to inhibit development in the light tones yet would complete the development of the dark tones. Wouldn't the light tones be more affected by the wt developer than the dark tones.. causing a difference in color?

    Anyway that was my logic and apparently it doesn't hold up for a color split. But what I don't get is why reversing the order of the developers has a very significant impact. Strong developer first gives much contrastier print than soft developer first even though the total time processing in each bath is the same.

  9. #9
    gainer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Posts
    3,726
    Images
    2
    Just for fun, try a snip of that paper in plain carbonate solution in room light to see if it has developer incorporated in the emulsion. Some do, some don't. I'm not sure it would change what you're trying to do, but it would be another piece of information you need to know in any case.
    Gadget Gainer

  10. #10
    Neanderman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Ohio River Valley
    Shooter
    Large Format
    Posts
    575
    Quote Originally Posted by Sparky View Post
    Where on earth did you read that you can do this?
    It is a perfectly valid process. I used it extensively with graded papers, usually using Selectol-Soft for the first developer and Dektol for the second.

    The concept is that the 'soft' developer will develop the highlights and elements of the shadows and that the hard developer will pop up the shadow density.

    The thing you have to be aware of is the order of the developers because there can be chemical carryover from the first developer into the second developer that will defeat the purpose. (Though I don't think that is the problem this person is having.)

    Ed
    "I only wanted Uncle Vern standing by his new car (a Hudson) on a clear day. I got him and the car. I also got a bit of Aunt Mary's laundry, and Beau Jack, the dog, peeing on a fence, and a row of potted tuberous begonias on the porch and 78 trees and a million pebbles in the driveway and more. It's a generous medium, photography." -- Lee Friedlander

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast


 

APUG PARTNERS EQUALLY FUNDING OUR COMMUNITY:



Contact Us  |  Support Us!  |  Advertise  |  Site Terms  |  Archive  —   Search  |  Mobile Device Access  |  RSS  |  Facebook  |  Linkedin