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  1. #21
    Sparky's Avatar
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    I tape them to both ends of the print. Alignment is critical. It's still scrolling. But it uses a lot less floor space than trays would. It's maybe a little cleaner... but yeah -in the shower with the speedo is pretty much the deal. Not so much fun. if I built more tubes, I could do the wash via the 'ilford method'... but I think the paper would be too susceptible to damage this way.

    Quote Originally Posted by MarkL View Post
    Sparky, so you fasten the print to two 1.25" tubes and roll the print around one, then dip the assembly into the tube and spin from one to the other?

    And how do you wash those mothers? Is it into the shower with your speedo, holding the print?

    I was thinking why am I doing a 32" inch print on mural roll paper when I can do a 24" print on sheet paper? It's a PITA and heck, it's only 8" wider. But it's deceptive because it really is a monster compared to the 24"!

  2. #22
    MarkL's Avatar
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    Thanks guys for your detailed help.

    Frotog, what are you using for troughs?

    For print rinsing and/or washing, It might be nice to have a hose fitting on the end cap of the trough so that water can flush right in. On the other end could be a hole with a rubber stopper in it for the outflow. Also you could empty the solutions into containers through an end hole.

  3. #23

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    I had the guys at a local metal fab shop put together a few troughs for me out of 316 ss. They're 52" long, 10" wide and about 4" deep. The sides taper out at about a 30 degree angle from normal which nicely cradles the outside of the roll as well as forming a spout in the corners. They weren't inexpensive but at the time I had a large mural account and so it seemed a modest expense. I believe the sheet ss is either 10 gauge or 12. I have a 12' wide sink so I can put two side by side, using the second trough for both stop and fix. I've seen similar photo troughs homemade out of marine ply w/ epoxy coating.

    With your print you can get away with using standard 16x20 trays like cescos or pattersons.

    As far as the wash goes....my tests for residual hypo prooved that scrolling through multiple baths of fresh water was the quickest, most efficient way of attaining archival quality - 20' at 68 degrees f. after the hypoclear. Letting the print soak rolled up for 90 to 120 minutes not only left residual hypo but also created drying problems. I suppose if you were really nuts and had the room you could build yourself some sort of giant archival washer but getting the prints in and out of such a device would be a tricky thing to do without crimping the print. Besides, I'm of the camp that likes the simplest, most elegant solutions to technical problems so if there's one less bit of gear to deal with....As I mentioned in a previous post the roll has structural rigidity and you shouldn't unroll a mural until you're ready to dry it (a whole 'nother ball of wax).

    I'd like to see Bob's set-up....it sounds amazing.

    Cheers!

  4. #24
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    We are going to prepare a power point presentation over the next couple of weeks of our facility for a few meetings that I will be showing our work.
    Once that is done I will post the link..
    I am really happy with the sink as it helps workflow tremendously.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkL View Post
    I’m working on a 32”x14” print and developing in a trough made of vinyl rain gutter.
    Just want to say that I love that first sentence! Beautiful! Keep it up!
    "Only dead fish follow the stream"

    [APUG Portfolio] [APUG Blog] [Website]

  6. #26
    MarkL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Carnie View Post
    We are going to prepare a power point presentation over the next couple of weeks of our facility for a few meetings that I will be showing our work.
    Once that is done I will post the link..
    I am really happy with the sink as it helps workflow tremendously.
    Great Bob. A picture is worth a thousand words. Hope to catch a glimpse of your print washing routine as well!

  7. #27
    MarkL's Avatar
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    Just wanted to update the thread because it appears my problem is solved. I attached a scan of a section of a print with the subtle but noticeable vertical streaking in the sky.

    Evidently the problem is defective paper. After 23 print/test runs trying different ideas and techniques, my problem disappeared immediately after I decided to cut the print out of the mural roll 90 degrees to the way I had been cutting it. In other words the inconsistent density is apparently in the emulsion, running in lines the length of the roll. In that case the streaks must still be in my 90 degree corrected prints, but they’re not noticeable because of the streaky cloud formations (see attachment).

    Maybe there’s another explanation I haven’t thought of, but I think I’ve ruled everything else out. Are emulsion coating issues very common (or could X-raying of imported paper do this)?

    Thanks, and hope the thread helps out others trying large prints – it’s great fun and really not hard to do even in my 6x11 darkroom!

    Mark


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  8. #28
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
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    Mark;

    Your problem was hard to diagnose from the earlier posts, but I think you nailed it here. It is probably a coating defect. But I hasten to add that it is rare with Kodak, Ilford and Fuji products. From posts here it is more common among the 2nd and 3rd tier manufacturers. Examples of this kind of defect have been posted here by myself and others from some of those 2nd and 3rd tier manufacturers.

    You appear to have a valid complaint.

    PE

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkL View Post
    ...my problem disappeared immediately after I decided to cut the print out of the mural roll 90 degrees to the way I had been cutting it...
    That's what I already suggested, no...? (in my first post on the subject)

  10. #30
    MarkL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparky View Post
    That's what I already suggested, no...? (in my first post on the subject)
    Yes Sparky, and you were right! I was reluctant to blame it on the paper and not my technique... There's a lot of bumbling and fumbling involved learning how to handle curly mural paper in a small darkroom. I uttered a few choice phrases from time to time for sure.

    After several darkroom sessions and about 10 yards of paper working out this problem, I really got a lot of practice and worked some bugs out, thanks to all the APUG'ers who chimed in. Scrolling in a tray or trough is much preferable to see-sawing with a roller weight to hold the paper in the trough. That's too much like exercise for me. Someday I hope to post up an article/pictures/video on what I've learned to help others with smaller darkrooms get started. All size prints are cool but hey, why shouldn't a good photograph have the same presence and scale as the average painting if you feel like it?

    Mark

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